KISS versus HOTAS

[ihab]

Friends,

I'm curious about what Sonex builders' opinions are about building an airplane that can be flown HOTAS from both seats, as opposed to following the KISS principle and minimizing extra gewgaws and gadgets.

I see Jeff Schultz thought about dual throttles here but it seems like he decided against it after all. It should be fairly easy to build a throttle torque tube behind the panel linking the two levers so one does not need to worry about two cables, right? I think the mixture control could probably stay in the center.

What about the flaps and trim? One needs to mess with the former a fair amount in the pattern, and the latter all the time. Is it worth creating dual flap handles? Or maybe just putting in electric flaps and trim and calling it a day?

Ihab

[ihab]

... and I guess if I were to put in electric flaps, I would add a 3- or 4-button console like this on the left side of both seats, so each pilot could operate it with their left hand while keeping their right hand on the stick.

Ihab

[Bryan Cotton]

Ihab,
I am not a big believer in HOTAS for burning up the pattern in a sport plane. It just isn't needed. You don't have to mess with flaps, trim, or throttle all the time no more than you have to mess with the throttle on a tractor all the time. Dual throttles are ok but if I was going that route I would do it like the Sonex factory airplanes. They have a push-pull cable that loops around under the instrument panel and works the quadrant. For me all the auxiliary controls are going in the center like a Cessna 140.

[ihab]

Interesting, makes sense! Thanks Bryan! -- Ihab

[MichaelFarley56]

I'm right with Bryan on this one Ihab. HOTAS means more wiring, more complexity, more weight, more failure items, etc. on an airplane that doesn't need them. If we were building front line military fighters that land at 180 knots then it may be different, but that's not us.

Just as an example, how expensive is a flap motor, and how much does it weigh? Even in the homebuilt world I'm sure they're not cheap. If you decide to build your airplane by plans, you'll never have to worry about the added weight of the motor eating into your useful load, and I've never head of the mechanical flaps failing!

Remember, the more you add, the heavier the plane gets, and the less performance you'll have. Do yourself a favor; build it light, simple, and as a result you'll have a great airplane to fly!

Just my opinion of course....

[ihab]

Thanks Mike. I guess I'd have to agree.

The reason I thought about "HOTAS" was really to give the pilot and passenger identical control setups, so it'd be easier to give passengers the experience of "really" flying the plane. But the fact is, such casual passengers are by NO means going to be flying in the pattern; if they were, they'd be taking real flight instruction with a real CFI (not me!!) in the right seat. So optimizing for the pilot with a chance for the passenger to take the stick once in a while is probably enough.

Ihab

[MichaelFarley56]

Of course Ihab, that makes sense. Remember that you always have the option of installing the throttle, mixture, trim, flaps and brakes all in the middle. Or any combination thereof; personally, I like having the brake and flap handles on the left for the extra leg room, but if I was going to have lots of passengers I would consider a centrally mounted throttle and mixture control.

So many choices!! :mrgreen:

[fastj22]

I guess I'm a HOTAS.
I was originally dual stick, center throttle/mixture. Intent was to allow my son to train in it.
Realized that was not a realistic goal and after phase one, eventually changed to a center stick since most of my flying is solo.
Moved my throttle from the center to the left. Have electric trim, aileron and elevator on a high hat on the center stick. PTT is the trigger, one button below that is unassigned (smoke?) Even have electric flaps for approach. Mixture is still center console.
When I fly center seat, I feel like a fighter pilot. Even flying left seat, it just feels natural to have throttle in left hand, everything else right hand. The flap switch is left hand operated, but momentary.

[ihab]

Sounds pretty slick, fastj22! That said, you have a single pilot oriented HOTAS. My thought was a full dual pilot setup would be good for the same reasons as yours. But that would be heavy and complicated, and I'm glad you are confirming that the reason (training family members) is not really practical after all. -- Ihab

[fastj22]

Sounds pretty slick, fastj22! That said, you have a single pilot oriented HOTAS. My thought was a full dual pilot setup would be good for the same reasons as yours. But that would be heavy and complicated, and I'm glad you are confirming that the reason (training family members) is not really practical after all. -- Ihab

I learned in Cessna and other center throttle planes. When I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Citabria and Decathlon, the throttle was left. Felt weird. Now that I relocated mine to left and put many hours in, it just feels natural.

When I moved the stick to center, I though I might not like it much sitting left seat. But my son and I flew 13 hours to OSH and back and it was fine. It really felt natural for me in the left seat. The only complaint came from the right seat as he was flying and my right leg was pushing against the stick as I stretched out to take a nap. A quick nudge and thump and I corrected my position.

As for training, I realized my sonex isn't the best training platform. Tough to find an instructor and the plane is my baby. I don't want him "learning" in my baby. When my son is ready to get his ticket, It will be best to just have him join a club, rent and do it like I did.

I'm a convert to the center stick club. Dual is fine, but you can't fly center in a dual, and flying middle is really nice and roomy.

One negative thing, only having one PTT can be annoying if the passenger is flying the stick. think about putting a second button somewhere.