Overhead Console

[Skippydiesel]

The airborne human eye is very very bad at seeing other aircraft in the air - good radio communication, giving location, altitude, direction, intention, is your best bet, by far, to zeroing in on another aircraft in the air.

Not against lights - they look great but that doesn't mean they are effective (in the air)

Video evidence seems to suggest that a good set of wig-wags can make you quite visible to oncoming traffic (2:39) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJm2H3pqXY

Great when viewed from the ground. THE VIDEO IS LOOKING FROM THE GROUND UP OR AGAINST A CONTRASTING BACKGROUND

From the air, great once you have actually found/seen the aircarft, due to luck or good radio communication, narrowing the area where to look.

All the evidence indicates that lights flashing/wig waging/ whatever lights, have little if any benefit, in air to air, seeing of another aircraft in VFR conditions.

[Scott Todd]

"All the evidence is against you." Seriously? What evidence is there that having lights wont help someone see you? I'm a new pilot and have only been flying since the invention of color TV and I can think of several occasions where I saw lights before seeing an aircraft. In my 50 years of flying and several thousand hours, NAV lights on for anything but bright sunny mid day and strobes on ALL the time. Its a few hundred dollars and a few hours on an aircraft build that gets lost in the noise. You might as well recommend people don't use seat belts since they are hardly ever used.

[daleandee]

All the evidence indicates that lights flashing/wig waging/ whatever lights, have little if any benefit, in air to air, seeing of another aircraft in VFR conditions.

Show me the evidence you have to prove this. There is a lot to prove that lighting, and especially flashing lighting, is extremely effective at attracting the attention of the human eye.

You can see my aircraft from the ground at more than a mile away with the wig-wags on. Are you suggesting that if the camera had been at 500' that he wouldn't have been able to see the wig-wags?

That is absolutely nonsensical. I cannot help you with this any further ...

Dale
3.0 Corvair/Tailwheel

[Bryan Cotton]

I know I'm getting way too far ahead of where things are, but a neat feature of the Highwing, especially with the spar overhead anyway, is the possibility for a switch console. Kind of a little "airliner" feel, but also with the possibility that all lights would be in the wings, why run a bunch of individually switched wires from panel up to the wing.

Back to the original question - I can see this having some benefit. In terms of minimizing wire, to the wing root area would be better than the middle by a little bit. The other benefit would be less stuff on the panel. I'd want a breaker on the panel and run a single power wire, plus a ground up to the console. For the tail nav light, are you going to run the wires down the top or the bottom?

[Eric W]

In terms of minimizing wire, to the wing root area would be better than the middle by a little bit. The other benefit would be less stuff on the panel. I'd want a breaker on the panel and run a single power wire, plus a ground up to the console. For the tail nav light, are you going to run the wires down the top or the bottom?

It seems most of the wingtip lights are set up to include the required tail / white light rearwards coverage, so nothing out to the tail would be needed.

[Bryan Cotton]

It seems most of the wingtip lights are set up to include the required tail / white light rearwards coverage, so nothing out to the tail would be needed.

That is exactly how my Whelen Orion 600s are. Which was great, but then we wanted to add ADS-B out. Our plan was a UavioniX Echo, but then that went away. There are some cool options for integrating ADS-B in and out into the wingtip nav lights, but I'm not sure those have the white navigation light for aft.

Fish finder - that is awesome, I am going to use that term. You seem like you are pretty keyed up for the Sonex High Wing. It could be a good airplane I think.

[Skippydiesel]

"All the evidence is against you." Seriously? What evidence is there that having lights wont help someone see you? I'm a new pilot and have only been flying since the invention of color TV and I can think of several occasions where I saw lights before seeing an aircraft. In my 50 years of flying and several thousand hours, NAV lights on for anything but bright sunny mid day and strobes on ALL the time. Its a few hundred dollars and a few hours on an aircraft build that gets lost in the noise. You might as well recommend people don't use seat belts since they are hardly ever used."

Try reading what I have written - I am not advising against navigation lights for day VFR aircraft - I am saying that they are more of an aesthetic addition (like a fancy paint job) than practical. Personally I quite like them but still does not mean I think they are effective - they are not.

"Show me the evidence you have to prove this. There is a lot to prove that lighting, and especially flashing lighting, is extremely effective at attracting the attention of the human eye.
You can see my aircraft from the ground at more than a mile away with the wig-wags on. Are you suggesting that if the camera had been at 500' that he wouldn't have been able to see the wig-wags?
That is absolutely nonsensical. I cannot help you with this any further ...Dale"


Evidence for my opinion - I note that most (all?) countries do not require lights be fitted to aircraft, that are to be flown exclusively in day VFR conditions.

Further: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/589 ... _avoid.pdf

"You can see my aircraft from the ground at more than a mile away with the wig-wags on." You have just agreed with my statement.

"..............if the camera had been at 500' that he wouldn't have been able to see the wig-wags?" This is NOT what I have said - In the air, without having a clue (radio communication) that there is an aircraft in a certain three-dimensional location the HUMAN EYE will have great difficulty in seeing it in DAY VFR conditions. Lights will make very little difference.

As for nonsense - try reading & understanding what I have written before making disparaging comments

[Bryan Cotton]

We are off the rails a bit and that is ok. I'll say that I have spotted aircraft many times because of their strobes or beacons whilst flying. Especially the latest generation of LED lights, they are pretty bright. So I'll disagree that there is no VFR benefit.

Regarding the regs, here in the US of A, you are not required to have lights for day VFR. But if you have an anticollision light installed, you are required by 91.209(b) to turn it on, unless as PIC you determine it is causing a hazard. The only hazard I ever encountered with strobes was in IFR, actually in snow at night. I turned them off.

[builderflyer]

Regarding aircraft lighting, it's interesting to read how most of our experiences are different from others. My personal daytime observations are (1) except in a heavy overcast sky condition, I can't say I ever spotted another aircraft simply because it had working nav lights or even strobe lights, and (2) in a bright sunny sky condition, the only lights that ever brought another aircraft to my attention were landing lights, especially when they were doing a wig wag function.

Again, regarding aircraft lighting though, if the main purpose is to help to avoid hitting other aircraft, then no amount or type of lighting would have made a difference in my closest encounter with another aircraft ( talking inches, not feet) as the other aircraft wasn't visible out either of our windows until the last second.

So when I first built my Sonex, I purposely had it certified for day vfr only with no lighting at all. I didn't want to be tempted to fly a single engine experimental aircraft equipped with an experimental engine and prop during nighttime hours. But as the years went on, and because other aircraft could never spot my polished Sonex in the sky, I began to add strobe lights, first wingtip followed by a tail and belly strobe. Other aircraft still can't spot me but at least the strobes look great when powered up in my hangar.

Art (pilot since 1965)..........Sonex taildragger #95.........Jabiru 3300 #261

[Skippydiesel]

My thanks Builderflyer - I was beginning to think that I was but a voice in the wilderness.

As I see it (pun intended) we intuitively think that lights will increase visibility to other aircraft. Added to this is how undeniably great they look, particularly the pulsing/wig wag types.

Unfortunatly the science does not back this intuitive expectation, when in a day VFR environment.