Aerobatic Ailerons, yes/no?

[mccool]

I've come to a crossroads in my Sonex A project. Aerobatic ailerons or standard. I have everything I need for either one.
I'd like to hear from those who've done the big ailerons about the pros and cons.

[Bryan Cotton]

Yes. They are awesome. Lots of roll authority especially at low speeds. I don't seem to miss the extra flaps at all. Some discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=5892&p=50714#p50714

Some rolls:
https://youtu.be/uTWFlcIRJlE?si=g00cR7o-qogF-BKH

[Area 51%]

Can't speak to the roll rate of standard vs aerobatic ailerons, but unless Adam has super-human strength, he looks to have a much easier time of deploying the shorter flaps than I ever did with the longer option.

[Bryan Cotton]

Can't speak to the roll rate of standard vs aerobatic ailerons, but unless Adam has super-human strength, he looks to have a much easier time of deploying the shorter flaps than I ever did with the longer option.

Our flap forces are very manageable. Never tried the big flaps.

[Kai]

I have the big flaps on my own Legacy, but I´ve flown both. For me the most notable difference was far less float after flare during landing with the short ones: the sooner the wheels are on the ground, the sooner you can brake and shorten rollout. Stall speed unquestionably goes up- I´d say 3-5 kts. The original reason for the big flaps was that the Sonex was designed for the european ultralight rules: they specify a stall speed of no more than 35 kts at MTOM.The larger ailerons improve roll, but IMHO are really not needed unless you plan for a lot of aerobatics. I can´t say they feel much heavier than the short ones. If I should do it again, I would go for the short flaps.

[BobDz]

Might be a silly question (be kind), as I've never done a barrel roll in my life but it is on my bucket list.

So can you do a barrel roll with the "standard" ailerons?

[Bryan Cotton]

Might be a silly question (be kind), as I've never done a barrel roll in my life but it is on my bucket list.

So can you do a barrel roll with the "standard" ailerons?

I am sure you can. Lots of people doing aerobatics with standard ailerons.

[Bryan Cotton]

The Smith brothers (not actually brothers AFAIK) have some standard aileron aerobatic videos.
https://youtu.be/8mN04-XPr9k?si=jI2xsOA_kkAYQELr
https://youtu.be/0wTyop6zxF8?si=0ixatZa2fzpl8eft

[Sonerai13]

I believe you posted this same question on the Sonex Builders FaceBook page, and I will give you the same answer here as I did there (with a bit more detail)...

If I were building the airplane, I would go with Aerobatic ailerons. Not so much for any added roll response (since the standard ailerons are plenty light and responsive) but more for the better match of the flaps with the airframe. I really like the landing performance of the shorter flaps. This is likely a personal feel/preference issue, but then, anyone's answer to your question will come down to personal preference.

I flew all the factory prototypes during my time as a Sonex employee, and my very favorite airplanes in the fleet were the tailwheel Onex (for absolute best performance/handling balance), SX-1 (the original Sonex prototype, with its 3300 Jabiru engine, it was a real rocket ship), and the Acro Sonex (especially with the turbo engine. Best handling Sonex and almost as good on performance as SX-1). They are ALL great airplanes, but those were my personal favorites.

[N190YX]

Regarding performing a roll (barrel roll), just about any airplane can be rolled, shown by the Boeing test pilot performing a roll during the first public demonstration flight of the 707/KC135 prototype (much to the consternation of the Boeing CEO). My point is you can roll just about any airplane, you do not need a rapid roll rate. The easiest way is to nose down to pick up extra airspeed, then pull the nose up above the horizon, then apply full aileron (and some rudder, depending on the airplane) in the desired direction of the roll, and level out at level flight at the end of the roll. The nose will be below the horizon at the end of the roll so gently bring it up to level flight. This method of performing a roll would not disturb a cup of coffee sitting on the glare shield!

I'm planning the large ailerons for the purpose of having the resulting easier to deploy smaller flaps.