New Memebr Consider a Build...lots of questions.

[Bryan Cotton]

Keep in mind with the aerovee there are some additional maintenance items like valve adjustment that needs to be done at every oil change etc. but operating cost are way lower,

The advantage to building is the repairman certificate and customization of the platform.

Oil change 25 hours, valve adjustment 50 hours after break in. The repairman certificate is a great benefit.

I agree with Keith and Scott that the sensible thing is to buy a flying airplane, except you will need an A&P for annuals who may know nothing about a VW engine. Would have been sensible for me as well. Would not have checked the box for me though. I wanted to build. I know my wing attach bolt holes are perfect and I did my Waiex tail mount parts like 5 times to get them perfect. Not sure the general population is nuts enough to make me happy with key items like that, although 90% of other builders probably have better cosmetics than I ever will.

When I'm out pulling 4G doing loops, or getting hammered by turbulence, I feel confident in the airplane because I know we built it right.

[tps8903]

Hi,

I'm a new member of this community and am considering building either a Onex or Sonex

Thanks a bunch!

James

Sonex B or Onex will meet your cost requirements. The UL engine is antithetical to it however.

Aerovee Turbo is a great engine. The negative quirks have been worked out that have caused problems for some people. If you don't mind spending the cash the Jabiru 3300 is probably the best choice, and what I likely would have bought, but I bought a partially finished kit with engine. So I added the turbo. It's been great.

The reality of GA is most people don't often take passengers, and if I had my choice I'd own a Onex. But it's a deal breaker in my house to have 2 seats even if my wife and kids only join me once in a while. Your comment on Sonex as a large 1 seater is bang on.

IFR is a hard NO! It could be done, but it is not a great idea for many reason. Electrical requirements, panel space, icing issues, weight, etc. If that's in your mission, I highly suggest looking elsewhere. A true IFR platform will drive the cost up considerably, easily $9000-15000+ over a basic light VFR panel. For a new GPS/NAV/COMM you are looking at $5k. Plus you'll need a HSI ($2500) or a Glass panel with ARINC-429 and associated accesories. Not to mention the 28 day database subscription currently about $500/year for basic NAV data and $1000/year if you want terrain and obstacles.

Some people mentioned time commitment. 1000%. You can have the best of both worlds by buying a partially completed kit with an appropriate inspection of the work already completed. It'll save money and time. Or buy a quality flying Sonex and make it your own. As mentioned, that means finding an A&P.

Removing the wings sucks. If you have seasonal storage limitations involving removing wings just go with the Onex.

Insurance wasn't an issue for me on my first flight. However I have a large amount of flying experience, so that might have allowed the to secure a full coverage policy for about $1400/year. I hope and suspect it'll decrease in year 2 when I will have close to 100 hours on type. I used Gallaghers as a broker. You can see what they have to offer. Everywhere gave me a quote, no one said NO outright.

There is definitely a slight view obstruction in my plane for my seating position. But I'm use to it now. It's slightly above level flight. So I just scan there as necessary. YMMV.

Hope that helps. I tried to answer your question point by point. Welcome to the forum.

[BRS]

... Buy one already flying. If you fall in love with it, then build one or buy a project to finish....

Scott, that was basically my method but mine turned out to be more of a project. That said, once I have all the wrinkles ironed out, if I love it then I will seriously look at building a (or find another project) a B model and probably a trike at that. My home field has a narrow spot in the middle that gives me the willies when the wind is blowing and I can't see in front of me. Nice thing about the B model is longevity of mission. Your 'mission' will likely change if you are younger. As your skill improves you'll desire more power, you may find that special someone who want's to fly with you. In my case that would be grand kids (when they get a few years older). With a B model, down the road, you might find yourself with some extra tax refund one year and decide to spring for the ULPower engine. That larger firewall gives you options.

Insurance: I've resorted to liability only on my two planes. Costs just have gotten out of control and in a few years I'll have saved enough to do some serious repairs in case a rock falls out of the sky and through the hangar roof. Each person has their own comfort limit on this. Though, I'd say never fly naked. Liabilty is cheap. Besides if you were to land-out walking back would be embarrasing.

[jklPDXPilot]

Well you have all got me thinking, which was the point of posting,

I'm warming up to the buy then build idea, I can deal with an A&P for the annual. If I buy, can I still work on it myself andjust need an A&P for the annual? My BIL wasan A&P once. Maybe I can convince him to his A&P and PPL current and trade him some plane time for inspection supervision time.

I find it hard to believe a competent mechanic can't work on a vw based motor. I rebuilt one in middle school.

I have access to multiple plane via my club, including 2 that are ifr. I was just thinkg of ifr capabilities just tonget through the cloud kayer, not to actually fly IMC for very long.

BRS said I could take a look at his Sonex, so I,ll take him up on that and go from there.

[tps8903]

You only need the mechanic to sign off the annual condition inspection. You can do all the work, including engine work, and most of, if not all of the condition inspection. It will depend on your and your A&P comfort level. For homebuilt the A&P dosent require an IA

[BenCharvet]

If your BIL was once an A/P he still is, unless it was revoked. The AP doesn't require renewal. That means if he is willing you could do the condition inspections together.

[Bryan Cotton]

If your BIL was once an A/P he still is, unless it was revoked. The AP doesn't require renewal. That means if he is willing you could do the condition inspections together.

[jklPDXPilot]

You only need the mechanic to sign off the annual condition inspection. You can do all the work, including engine work, and most of, if not all of the condition inspection. It will depend on your and your A&P comfort level. For homebuilt the A&P dosent require an IA

Good info. I thin our club A&P would work with me on that.

[jklPDXPilot]

The more I look around, the more I come back to Sonnex. I've also been considering Thorpe and Zenith.

But for my main Criteria (Cost to acquire, Cost to operate, and the ability to do basic aerobatics), the Sonnex keeps coming out on top. If I focus on the mission which is for me to stay proficient by being able to fly often. While I love the idea of a modern experimental XC plane., I have access to a legacy, certified XC-capable plane when needed via my club.

I've been looking at used Sonnex's and the prices look good. I think I would want one that is flying regularly and still spend some time going through it myself, but it does look like a substantial $ savings.

[13brv3]

I've been looking at used Sonnex's and the prices look good. I think I would want one that is flying regularly and still spend some time going through it myself, but it does look like a substantial $ savings.

There are some experimental aircraft that are worth more than the cost to build them, but Sonex isn't one of them unless maybe it's scratch build by a good scrounger. That's good for you, but less good for anyone who builds one from a kit and later sells it. Used, the Sonex is a great value.

As for the A&P rating, if you have an A&P, and don't do anything for 24 months, you'd have to throw yourself at the mercy of option A in Bryan's list. I'll certainly do everything I can to avoid that :-)

Rusty