Waiex B down

[radfordc]

I had an opportunity to sell a Sonex years ago to an ultralight pilot that had never flown one. They asked if I'd teach them to land it so they could buy it and fly it home across the country. I refused knowing that this scenario was a ripe for an NTSB report. So we all might do the flying community a favor and let them know that these plans are easy to fly ... "when you learn how to do it."

Dale, I was a high time UL pilot when I bought my Sonex. My only Sonex experience was a familiarization flight that consisted of three takeoffs and landings. I bought the plane and flew it home from Detroit to Kansas City. Probably not one of my best ADM moments. And yes, at the end of a long day of flying the last landing was a ground loop. I guess better lucky than smart.

[XenosN42]

This has been said before, but it never hurts to be repeated.

Glider training, or even better a rating will make you a better power pilot. It might take some effort but it’s worth it.

Many Sonex and experimental accidents happen after engine problems or failure. For many power pilots the first thing on the checklist is ‘panic’! For a glider pilot it’s OK I’ve done this before, let’s land.

I’ve been there. Early on flight testing my OneX the engine stopped on short final. (Idle cut off needed adjustment.) in hindsight I did everything right. Training shows. 1. I pulled the mixture to cutoff. 2. Landed the plane. 3. Coasted to a stop. 4. Started the engine and taxied back. All your glider training kicks in. I’d landed without an engine 100s of times. That was just one more time. No panic required.

[daleandee]

I had an opportunity to sell a Sonex years ago to an ultralight pilot that had never flown one. They asked if I'd teach them to land it so they could buy it and fly it home across the country. I refused knowing that this scenario was a ripe for an NTSB report. So we all might do the flying community a favor and let them know that these plans are easy to fly ... "when you learn how to do it."

Dale, I was a high time UL pilot when I bought my Sonex. My only Sonex experience was a familiarization flight that consisted of three takeoffs and landings. I bought the plane and flew it home from Detroit to Kansas City. Probably not one of my best ADM moments. And yes, at the end of a long day of flying the last landing was a ground loop. I guess better lucky than smart.

Hey Charlie ... don't want to get too far into the weeds but to clarify that particular situation I referred to, I had taken the prospective buyer up for a ride and to let them fly the plane and concluded that they were nowhere near ready to fly a Sonex solo, much less across the country over some high mountain terrain.

Would it have been OK? Possibly ... but I have always tried to err on the side of caution and believed then as well as now that I made a wise decision. The eventual buyer was a great fella and a VW mechanic (which is definitely a plus). Took him up to let him fly it and although he hadn't flown a Sonex before after a few maneuvers he was in the groove and right at home!

[fastj22]

This has been said before, but it never hurts to be repeated.

Glider training, or even better a rating will make you a better power pilot. It might take some effort but it’s worth it.

Many Sonex and experimental accidents happen after engine problems or failure. For many power pilots the first thing on the checklist is ‘panic’! For a glider pilot it’s OK I’ve done this before, let’s land.

I’ve been there. Early on flight testing my OneX the engine stopped on short final. (Idle cut off needed adjustment.) in hindsight I did everything right. Training shows. 1. I pulled the mixture to cutoff. 2. Landed the plane. 3. Coasted to a stop. 4. Started the engine and taxied back. All your glider training kicks in. I’d landed without an engine 100s of times. That was just one more time. No panic required.

Prior to me getting my commercial glider rating, I had an engine out in my Sonex on takeoff at 200 ft. I had installed an angle of attack gauge and flew the impossible turn using it (lucky me). I didn't make it back to the runway but I didn't stall spin either and didn't damage the aircraft or myself. Now that I have my commercial glider rating, and done the 200ft rope break many times, I know the limitations and think I'll make the right decision if it happens again. Of course the Sonex has a glide slope of maybe 8:1. A bit different than a glider with 40:1. But the physics are the same. Airspeed, airspeed, airspeed.

I think the cause of these 2nd owner incidents is actually two things. A second owner without much airframe time and gets behind the curve or unfamiliar with procedures. Or its just an experimental with all the oddball stuff we do and make it a more unreliable than a certified aircraft. John Denver had a lot of experience, but very little in the EZ. Also the builder had a goofy fuel valve that probably was OK for him, but not for John. The result was a bunch of foam pieces in the bay.

[Bryan Cotton]

I'm a 300 hour glider pilot. I got my commercial rating too, near the end of my 300 hours. Only stopped because my company shut down our facility and threw my family into turmoil.

Not sure there is any better training than gliders for basic airmanship.

[GordonTurner]

Lot of foam plus a little meat.

It’s both. All of our planes are, compared to 172 example, goofy individual acts of freedom. We spend a year, or two, or ten, building and thinking about the intricacies, then get in them in a very careful thought out manner and very gently start to explore.

Joe, gets in and is either a) oblivious or b) under water trying to find his way up.

If you sell your plane, you owe the next guy a little training, and you are the only one that can provide that. John and Dale are correct, and Dale was spot on to decide the wrong guy wanted to buy his plane.

I don’t have that problem. My sons who helped build it, and will no doubt shortly inherit it, will have to deal with that.

[GraemeSmith]

NTSB Preliminary here:

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/ ... 105703/pdf

[Dave Wolfe]

To me, it seems like there are a TON of engine failures compared to other fleets. My gut says the carb is the common denominator, with intake icing contributing as well.

New pilots will have a learning curve as to setting the mixture so the engine dont quit.

Jmho without having flown one of these yet

[Bryan Cotton]

Intake icing? Does that happen on an aerocarb?

I'm a new Sonex pilot, but in terms of setting the mixture it doesn't seem a lot different than a Cessna.

[Dave Wolfe]

Thats one of the 'gotchas'. There isnt anything in the carb itself to ice up, but the entire intake manifold IS prone to icing and nobody discusses that. The per the plans engine (aerovee at least) installation results in some degree of 'always on' carb heat. The Jabiru has a shorter intake so its probably not affected as much.

Modify the intake to bring in cooler air to the carb, and your intake icing will get worse.