insurance roundtable

[MichaelFarley56]

Unfortunately you won’t know unless you ask Peter, but with the reports I’m hearing, underwriters are apparently much more restrictive when it comes to similar time in type. So ask and hope but don’t be surprised if they say no.

Good luck!

[pfhoeycfi]

Unfortunately you won’t know unless you ask Peter, but with the reports I’m hearing, underwriters are apparently much more restrictive when it comes to similar time in type. So ask and hope but don’t be surprised if they say no.

Good luck!

Has the issue, or the difficulty, been with hull only or liability as well? If it was just hull I would imagine one could self insure for the first 5 hours or so.
Thanks...
Peter

[MichaelFarley56]

I don’t believe liability only has been as much of an issue, but others can hopefully chime in with more info. As far as I’ve heard the hull coverage has been challenging to obtain in general, and nearly impossible without time in type.

[karmarepair]

I don’t believe liability only has been as much of an issue, but others can hopefully chime in with more info.

The liability only quote I got from Victoria Neuville required time in type or 5 hours dual in type.

There are people talking about being able to instruct in a Sonex they provide, but it's not a sure thing yet to my knowledge.

And I can't legally get instruction in my own plane until Phase 1 testing is done.

I'm toying with having a local instructor fly off all the test cards, then give me instruction in my plane. That would cost at least $3000, but it might be the only way I can get insurance.

[Scott Todd]

Try NOT to let someone else fly off your test cards. Its part of the whole experience. Why would you let an instructor fly it? Are they insured? Look into additional pilot which would allow you to go during Phase 1. Once you get 10 hours of logged time, you should be able to get insurance. You can probably get liability only until you get the 10 hours or whatever they will require. Probably cheaper and better than paying someone to fly that time off.

[karmarepair]

Try NOT to let someone else fly off your test cards. It's part of the whole experience. Why would you let an instructor fly it? Are they insured? Look into additional pilot which would allow you to go during Phase 1. Once you get 10 hours of logged time, you should be able to get insurance. You can probably get liability only until you get the 10 hours or whatever they will require. Probably cheaper and better than paying someone to fly that time off.

I'm still trying to figure this out, reading through AC 90-116, http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/medi ... 90-116.pdf. I need liability from the first flight, both from a marital harmony standpoint and to rent a tiedown at the public airport I'll be doing the Phase 1 testing from. Some excerpts from the insurance quote I got:

There is no coverage in flight unless a Standard airworthiness certificate is in full force and effect.

It's not clear to me if this means I have NO coverage until Phase 1 is complete, or just that the DAR has signed off the paperwork.

....and

Prior to solo, Ryan Young must successfully complete a minimum of 3 hours in a Sonex Waiex TRIGEAR, while accompanied by a FAA Certificated Flight Instructor who meets the conditions of the Open Pilot Clause. No Passenger coverage is provided while Ryan Young is at the controls of Sonex Waiex TRIGEAR N____ unless accompanied by an FAA Certificated Flight Instructor who meets the conditions of the Open Pilot Clause or a Designated Pilot Examiner until Ryan Young has completed the requirements shown above, has received proper FAA rating and or endorsements and has logged a minimum of 6 hours in a Sonex Waiex TRIGEAR.

This was for $1Mil/$100K liability only. And the plane I ended up with is a conventional tail Sonex. And the quoted annual premium was $534.

The IDEAL plan at this point would seem to be 3 hours of dual received in Someone Else's plane, then I'd fly off the Phase 1 all by myself. I'd be willing to fly commercial anywhere in the US to find such an opportunity.

Alternatively, I could perhaps meet this insurance requirement by flying as an Observer Pilot in my own plane for 3 hours with a Flight Instructor who meets the Advisory Circular requirements for a Qualified Pilot, but what their insurance situation would be is a little unclear. It seems like this COULD NOT be logged as Instruction; we'd be flying off the test cards, but it would give me 3 hours in type. I'd perhaps to repeat those test cards as the Builder Pilot, I need to read the Advisory Circular AGAIN a few times, as it seems the translation from the original Klingon was not as smooth as it might have been <frowning>.

[N190YX]

Has anyone consulted the EAA insurance program about the insurance issue? If anyone can help with this is should be the EAA! It looks like the "Catch 22" inasmuch as you can't solo the airplane without 3-5 hours instruction but you can't get instruction from any instructors without more experience in type, such instructors essentially not available.

[Scott Todd]

You need to get a LODA to use your experimental airplane for instruction. In addition, the instructor will need one too. I hear they are issuing them in about 24 hours. Your Instructor should have non-owners insurance. That would cover your liability until you get the 3 hours.

[pilotyoung]

A little over a year ago when I bought my Onex I could not find anyplace in the US to get instruction from a CFI in a Sonex.