Camguard

[kmacht]

150 hours and sitting on the ramp for over a year without being run and there was zero sludge and zero corrosion when I tore the engine down. Any sludge that might form gets drained right out the sump and screen when you do the 25 hour oil changes. Anything that might get trapped in the head would be very visible each time you adjust the valves and anything inside the case would just get pushed through to the sump as the smallest oil passage is about an 1/8 inch with many of the others much bigger. It’s not going to get trapped in there with 40 psi of pressure flowing oil through the system. The sludge concern is a solution looking for a non existent problem.

Keith
#554

[n502pd]

Thats fine and good to hear! I have run a finger around the interior of the sump a couple of times and have retrieved very thin black smudge on my finger, but nothing ever has shown up on the sump screen, or in the remote oil filter when I cut it open. Rocker boxes were pristeen and nothing but oil in side.

TKS!, Joe

[pappas]

So, knowing that Sonex doesn't like oil or fuel additives, and only approves of one oil for the turbo, Brad Penn Racing 20-50, do we think that Camguard automotive would be appropriate for use in the turbo?

I see, and clean off, gray sludge around the sump screen at the oil changes. I have the turbo cooling system and remote oil filter installed on mine. I engage the turbo cooling system at landing and idle for at least 3 minutes prior to shutdown per Sonex recommendations.

I monitor turbo body temps and never see it in the turbo temperature range where oil coking has been seen to occur. I have not had any indications of turbo problems that were described by a few early adaptors. I have 115 hours on mine and live in the SW desert.

Just wondering if I should spend some money on more stuff or leave well enough alone.

[GraemeSmith]

Lou - jump back to my Dec 2020 post about my call with Ed Kollin. Starts:

"I have just had the most fascinating 45...."

He didn't think the Brad Penn oil was a particularly good oil to use with a turbo. So (and I may not have stated it explicitly in the notes there) - he thought Camguard would make up for missing chemistries and help turbos.

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I do have to caution that I'm EXPERIMENTing (well we all are) and my decision to use two additives:

- Camgard in the oil
- TCP in the 100LL

do seem to go against AeroConversions advice. I'm doing it at my own risk. The TCP I'm easily comfortable about - been doing it for years with 100LL and had cleaner engines and plugs as a result.

The decision about the oil - I was initially looking for better corrosion protection between runs on this salty east coast - but ended up with quite a discussion about other benefits. I do wonder (and perhaps AeroConversions can chime in) if the recommendation about not using additives is simply they have not had a chance to do long term comparative testing or if they have specific issues they have noticed with additives.

So Camgard is definitely at my own risk.

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Different thought - Back in the 1990's I used to run a marinized Ford diesel that had an early model turbo added. We had to take precautions at shut down to ensure we idled the engine for a good period to let the turbo cool and avoid coking oil on the bearings which would make it seize on the next start. Not dissimilar to the cooling added to turbos on the AeroVee.

We also had very specific oil recommendations from Ford for oils that reduced the chances of coking the bearings. There was also a requirement to pre-oil the bearings and pressure feed them on the first start after an oil change or extended period where the engine had not run and the oil film would have broken down in the turbo. I think Ford probably had a much larger R&D budget to decide which oils were best for the turbo. I'm COMPLETELY GUESSING that a less well resourced AeroConversions have found an oil that works and so recommend just that.

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So this is a long winded way of saying - if you want to try it - Buyer Beware, At Your Own Risk, etc etc.(but you know that anyway)

[n502pd]

Thanks for the insight! I am using TCP also and have no concerns about it. Since I dont have the turbo, I was just thinking ( a dangerous thing to do!) about better cam lobe protection. As I have a desicant system that is used while in the hanger, and recent bore scope has shown zero rust problems. Please let us know whatever you decide about using cam guard long term.

[thomasjones42]

Just for info, Mike Busch likes CamGuard as an oil additive EXCEPT during engine break-in. Sat in on his briefing on break-in today.
Tom Jones

[GraemeSmith]

Yes - but he has no experience of AUTOMOTIVE Camguard in EXPERIMENTAL engines like AeroVee / Rotax / Jabiru.

When I asked Mike about it - it was Mike that put me on to Ed Kollin at ASEL Camguard as the real guru on the topic.

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And - YES - not during break in - or you will never get the piston rings to seat.

[n502pd]

Thanks for asking Mike! I am feeling much better about doing this addition, and do want to see what the differences are in auto vs aviation camguard

[pappas]

Can someone post a link to the exact TCP product you are using as a fuel additive and the price you are paying from your source? I am finding too many choices and prices that vary wildly.

[GraemeSmith]

Can someone post a link to the exact TCP product you are using as a fuel additive and the price you are paying from your source? I am finding too many choices and prices that vary wildly.

I use Declain. The dispenser bottle overcomes many of the issues associated with you not wanting to touch the stuff and it measures 1 gradation per gallon of fuel. The only thing to watch for is the bottle caps are a bit brittle and tend to shatter (and so not seal) if knocked about.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... ecalin.php