insurance roundtable

[WaiexN143NM]

hi all,
check out the new video on http://www.avweb.com
talking abount insurance.
high number of accidents every day, as posted on kathrynsreport, aviation safety bulliten, avweb, faa.gov site and more.
Video is 41 min. Grab a coffee.
We have a high accident rate in the sonex community, mostly due to engine failure due to unexplained cause.
Luckily my insurance rates didnt go up this year, just got the renewal.
Be safe out there, do not fly unless all squawks resolved.
Hoping for a safe 2021!

best,

WaiexN143NM
Michael

[fastj22]

I'm getting a quote for my C140 and PIK20D sailplane for the season. My current insurance is liability only for the Waiex at $500/year, Aerospace Insurance. I use Costello Insurance for the sailplane because that's their specialty and are reasonable. They underwrite for others. Aerospace Insurance will drop me if I insure my C140 with any other provider. They also stated my
Waiex policy will renew at $1500 in June. Liability only. Clearly I need to dump them.

Are other getting ridiculous quotes for liability only on their experimentals? My certified planes are reasonable, under $500 each.

[WaiexN143NM]

hi all,
wow! we were paying about $500/yr liability only never a claim. then last year shot up to $700. renewed this yr
march, took dad off, only myself listed, still $700.
remember ins companies gotta stay in business, so other lines of insurance suffer lots of losses, and ours goes up too.
good luck.


WaiexN143NM
Michael.

[fastj22]

hi all,
wow! we were paying about $500/yr liability only never a claim. then last year shot up to $700. renewed this yr
march, took dad off, only myself listed, still $700.
remember ins companies gotta stay in business, so other lines of insurance suffer lots of losses, and ours goes up too.
good luck.


WaiexN143NM
Michael.

Curious, is the experimental insurance becoming out of reach for us? Will we fly uninsured? Hull damage is one thing, but I carry liability so I can take a passenger and to protect my estate if I hit a bus of kids or a prize heffer. I'm not taking anyone up if I'm not protected.
My glider is pretty easy. Its just me. But I hook up to a tow plane. If I do something stupid and take out that tow plane, I'm covered with liability insurance. If it hit a bus full of orphans, I'm covered. If I ground loop the plane on a landout and take out a prize heffer, I'm covered.

My glider quote is coming in at $350/year liability. The C140 a bit more. Both certified. The Sonex, whoa nelly. $1500? Is EAA helping us here? AOPA?

[lpaaruule]

My insurance company sent me a notice to brace myself for the upcoming renewal in June. The last couple years it's been around $1500 for full coverage. I think my first year was $2500, and that was after I had already flown 10 hours uninsured, as there was no transition training available.

There may be a lot of accidents in small planes, but there are also a lot of accidents and theft with cars. An F-150 can cost around the same as a modestly equipped RV-7. Even a fender bender can cost several thousand dollars to repair.

As far a liability, I suppose there is more of a chance of hitting someone's $500,000 house with a plane than a car, but how often does that happen, and when it does, how often is the entire house destroyed?

I suspect the experimental market it getting gouged, and "cheap" planes like the Sonex are subsidizing more expensive planes. It's interesting when you get full coverage the liability part is about a third of the total premium, but liability alone is almost the cost off full coverage in some cases.

In the few years I've been flying my Sonex, I've never had a claim, and have already paid around 1/4 of its value in insurance premiums.

I'm likely going to try to find the lowest quote I can for liability insurance this year. If I can't find a decent price, then I'm going to look into other ways of protecting myself. If I can shield my house, and 401K, there isn't much else they can take. I know if Florida, they can't take your house, or car, and you can have up to $10,000 in liquid assets. Here in Michigan, I don't know.

[Fastcapy]

Holy carp.

I just renewed last week and was angry it went up from $360 to $450/year for liability ($1200 full coverage based on their minimum of $50k valuation).

I can't believe you guys are getting quotes in the thousands of $ for liability only.

My balloon also went up roughly the same amount.

[BRS]

Holy carp.

I just renewed last week and was angry it went up from $360 to $450/year for liability ($1200 full coverage based on their minimum of $50k valuation).

I can't believe you guys are getting quotes in the thousands of $ for liability only.

My balloon also went up roughly the same amount.

Fastcapy, occationally I run across folks that seem to be getting reasonable rates. It seems to be the exception and not the rule. So it makes me wonder, what makes you so special? Number of hours flown? Long standing history with same agent or underwriter? multiple aircraft?

Seems that asking these kind of questions to the agent always falls on deaf ears. Though I think they could be much more help if they wanted. I've not yet insured my sonex since it's still a restoration project. But it wont be long before I email my agent and start asking about coverage.

[Fastcapy]

Fastcapy, occationally I run across folks that seem to be getting reasonable rates. It seems to be the exception and not the rule. So it makes me wonder, what makes you so special? Number of hours flown? Long standing history with same agent or underwriter? multiple aircraft?

Seems that asking these kind of questions to the agent always falls on deaf ears. Though I think they could be much more help if they wanted. I've not yet insured my sonex since it's still a restoration project. But it wont be long before I email my agent and start asking about coverage.

Yeah I don't know the answer to that.

I had my Sonex and balloon insured with two different companies, but moved my Sonex to the same place as my balloon just to make it simpler. The rates were the same when I moved over. I have about 150hrs in my Sonex. Maybe having a commercial certificate helps keep rates lower. I don't really know. I just know I am paying the minimum rate for liability on the Sonex.

I do know my agent very well since the ballooning community is small and there is only 2 insurance options. So maybe the agent also has something to do with it. Your guess is as good as mine.

[BRS]

Yeah, Commercial, IFR, CFI, A&P don't seem to be helping my rates at all (at least for the Sportsman anyway).

Thanks for the reply.

[fastj22]

Costello Insurance, the glider specialist, told me that more and more underwriters are not offering insurance for Sonex at all. Not sure if its Sonex specifically, or experimentals in whole. I have a $2M umbrella policy with my homeowners policy that covers everything my other insurance won't. But I'm not sure it protects me if don't carry any liability on the plane. I need to find out.