accident N612RF

Discussion topics to include safety related issues and flight training.

accident N612RF

Postby WaiexN143NM » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:47 am

Hi all,
update with ntsb final report out for N612RF. accident date oct11 2019.
http://www.kathrynsreport.com dated oct11 2020.
be safe out there.

WaiexN143NM
michael
WaiexN143NM
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:04 am
Location: palm springs CA

Re: accident N612RF

Postby Sonex1517 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:53 am

Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Aero Estates (T25)
First flight 10/10/2015
375+ hours
Jabiru 3300 Gen 4
Prince P Tip
Taildragger
N1517S
User avatar
Sonex1517
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:11 am
Location: T25 Aero Estates, Frankston, TX

Re: accident N612RF

Postby sonex1374 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:42 pm

This is an interesting narrative, and I think it can teach us a few lessons. My comments are not an attack on the pilot, and I'm certainly not trying to throw blame on him. I think that we should talk about these things openly to try and learn from them. In that spirit, here are a few observations.

Narrative by the pilot (see pg 9): https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/63000-63499 ... 630982.pdf

The pilot was a low-time pilot, with less than 2 hrs Sonex time, landing at a short (<2500 ft) runway. Pilot was high on base so made a 270-degree turn to loose altitude in order to save the approach. This is certainly not something that is common in any airplane or traffic pattern. It's not clear why the pilot chose to do this, or if this was something that he had done in the past as a way to correct a high approach.

There are several recurring trends in landing accidents, and this seems to fall in perfectly: don't try to save a bad approach, but go around. I'll add to this one of my own admonishments: don't try to do inventive things in flight that you haven't practiced beforehand. As pilots, we need to develop mastery of our airplanes, but that comes from methodical practice in a controlled environment. This saying has always resonated with me - "In an emergency you don't rise to the occasion, but rather you fall back on your level of training." There is a place for improvisation and adaptation, but you owe it to yourself to get good training in the fundamental tasks ahead of time.

My take-aways from this accident are:
1) Discipline and standardization are important.
2) Become proficient in the slow-speed characteristics of the Sonex, and understand the effects of power, airspeed and sink rate.
3) Mentally rehearse your actions ahead of time to help speed up the decision making and thought processes in the heat of the moment.

Lastly, we need to hold ourselves accountable for our own level of proficiency. Even when it's inconvenient, expensive, or otherwise a pain, we still need to find ways to get ourselves truly ready to fly. This is never so important as right before flying our new planes for the first time. We've put a lot of time, effort and money into getting ready to fly for the first time, but let's not short-change the process before we are well-and-truly ready.

Jeff
Jeff Shultz
Sonex TD, 3300, AeroInjector
Kansas City, MO
http://www.sonex604.com
sonex1374
 
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:02 am

Re: accident N612RF

Postby WaiexN143NM » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:59 pm

Hi all, jeff,
Thanks for the post. excellently said. I read accident reports over coffee every morning. im retired from the faa,
but still very interested in safety. im still in the loop , providing accident trends to a master flight instructor based in norcal who does safety seminars with the FAA OAK fsdo, and now virtual presentations online due to the pandemic.
In no way am i questioning the pilots actions , abilities, decision making. They are posted so we all can learn, as we all could be faced with a similiar situation. In the sonex community we need to keep the accident rate down, which will domino effect into insurance rates, aircraft value, perception of this model/line of aircraft, even good for the factory
for kit sales & support.
We need to reach out to soon to be first flights, giving a ride to builders who will soon be a test pilot.
many of you have. thats great!
Not just the sonex line of aircraft, but many builders have poured their heart, soul, and money into their build.
many have not flown at all , or very little during the build. Get an instructor, even its it only a C172, and get
some stick time. Get comfortable, get some solo time , and gain your confidence back. Get a ride in another sonex.
Joe norris ALWAYS talks about the sight picture. You can get this from a sonex ridealong.
Be safe out there. Make sure all squawks are taken care of before flight.Lets try to keep the accident/incident
rate down.


WaiexN143NM
Michael
WaiexN143NM
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:04 am
Location: palm springs CA

Re: accident N612RF

Postby Chigbee » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:08 pm

Just my .02:

I hesitate to chime in, I don't want to second guess the pilot's decision but I think there's another lesson to be learned. At the risk of being an armchair quarterback: I'd say a contributing factor is also airport choice. I grew up flying at W10, it's not the type of place I'd call forgiving. There are tall trees at sides of the airport and there aren't a lot of divert options if you have engine issues.

Just consider, or better said, keep in mind, that your nearest airport may not be the best airport for your first flight and phase 1 testing. In my case, I plan on taking my airplane to KMHV for my first flight in the airplane. I'll be 25 miles away from my home airport but I'll have three runways, one of which is over 10,000 feet long. More importantly, think about the airport environment. Consider somewhere where there are few, if any obstructions and plenty of engine out options like farms, roads, desert, etc.
Chris Higbee
Onex #119, Aerovee, Zenith, Prince 54/44
Tehachapi, CA
Chigbee
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:23 pm
Location: Tehachapi CA (KTSP)

Re: accident N612RF

Postby Sonex1517 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:34 pm

Great thoughts Jeff!

I’ll add to the above. I chose my first flight (5 years ago this week) at KARR for similar reasons. It has three runways (two now....), a tower and a fire department across the street. The surrounding area is largely open fields.

Where I am based now is 3360’ with suburbia all around, and a north south runway where the winds teach you a lot about turbulence and landing in a crosswind.

I wouldn’t even consider making a first flight there.

This spring, I had my friend who is a CFI go out with me and help me learn how my Sonex behaves with VG’s at some fairly extreme flight regimes. Very slow flight with high bank angles, steep climbs, the impossible turn....all done carefully and at a higher altitude than normal.

It was my Wings phase for the year, and taught me more about my Sonex than I ever knew.

My point is basically in line with Jeff’s thoughts, I think. Know how YOUR Sonex/Waiex/Onex/Xenos/SubSonex behaves. They’re all slightly different. Learn it before you need it.
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Aero Estates (T25)
First flight 10/10/2015
375+ hours
Jabiru 3300 Gen 4
Prince P Tip
Taildragger
N1517S
User avatar
Sonex1517
 
Posts: 1670
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:11 am
Location: T25 Aero Estates, Frankston, TX

Re: accident N612RF

Postby NWade » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:52 pm

Chigbee wrote:...a contributing factor is also airport choice. I grew up flying at W10, it's not the type of place I'd call forgiving. There are tall trees at sides of the airport and there aren't a lot of divert options if you have engine issues.


As someone who lives in the region and has driven to W10 on multiple occasions (there is a Coffee Roaster a this location that is very popular with local pilots), I want to echo the comments above. W10 is a challenging airport to fly into. Its narrow, surrounded by tall trees, and right near a large body of water that can kick up serious winds. There is no way I would recommend a pilot fly into that airport unless they are fairly experienced with the aircraft they're flying, and have flown a lot recently.

My home airport (AWO) is a relatively popular base for homebuilts and its all too common for folks to build or buy an experimental and get way too eager to fly it to all of the fun destinations that they've been dreaming about.

It is vitally important that people treat the Phase 1 testing period (or the first 10+ hours if they bought it) seriously! Patience is hard, but important. The early hours in the cockpit are not just to check for things wrong with the airplane; its also a time for the pilot to learn how the aircraft reacts to a bunch of different circumstances and situations! The best place to learn those things is up at altitude and near your home airfield (or a similar space that can be used for emergency landing and does not present undue terrain or weather challenges).

Stay safe everyone,

--Noel
NWade
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:58 pm

Re: accident N612RF

Postby GraemeSmith » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:06 pm

Airport Choice. That's interesting. If the plane was in Phase 1 testing - why was that "difficult" airport allowed in the Operating Limitations?

My OL's - moved to my location in RI from the original builder's. AND the original OL's are/were quite restrictive about airports. Only large runway airports with minimum obstacle clearances are allowed. Indeed at my home airport - though I can operate from it if I go back into Phase 1 - I may NOT operate from two of the runways. It's pretty clear why - one has obstacles on departure. The other - if the engine quit - it would not end well in the town below. Other permitted airports are all +3.000ft runways and no obstacles.
Graeme JW Smith
User avatar
GraemeSmith
 
Posts: 939
Joined: Sat May 18, 2019 8:58 am
Location: RI

Re: accident N612RF

Postby Chigbee » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:17 pm

NWade wrote:My home airport (AWO) is a relatively popular base for homebuilts


That's awesome, I grew up in Arlington! My first job was at the airport there. AWO is a much better choice to do phase 1; several farm fields, multiple runways, predictable winds, etc. I can sympathize with the builder, if you live on Whidbey it's a pain to get off the island but doing phase 1 from there just doesn't seem like its worth the risk.

Don't want to belabor the point too much, just an awesome coincidence. I'll be flying up to the W10/AWO area once I have some time on my Onex. I'll reach out to you before heading that way, maybe we can meet up.
Chris Higbee
Onex #119, Aerovee, Zenith, Prince 54/44
Tehachapi, CA
Chigbee
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:23 pm
Location: Tehachapi CA (KTSP)


Return to Safety and Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 63 guests