Sonex as a first plane?

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Re: Sonex as a first plane?

Postby GraemeSmith » Mon May 04, 2020 11:39 am

Wing Loadings at maximum gross - standard spec aircraft:

C150 - 10 lb/sq ft (1,600lb)
Sonex - 11.2 lb/sq ft (1,100 lb)
Cherokee - 13.5 lb/sq ft (2,150lb)
C172 14 lb/sq ft (2,450lb)

Of course there is more to it than just the wing loading - because a C150 is NOT sportier feeling than a Sonex. Maximum gross and power loading has something to do with it too!

There is a Student pilot who owns a Cherokee tied down behind me. Gave him a ride before we started to socially distance. I would say it took him 15 mins to get the fundamentals and within 30 mins he was doing airwork to PPL ACS. Reasonably calm day without too many bumps. He is a "good stick". His comment was that the all round visibility really helped him get it. It was still my landing though! :-)
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Re: Sonex as a first plane?

Postby builderflyer » Mon May 04, 2020 2:38 pm

Yes, wing loading isn't the only factor. Certainly, inertia is very important, too. But if one is only going to consider one factor, wing loading isn't to be ignored when dealing with turbulence or a wind gust when landing.. When I fly my Sonex, alone and with a half tank of gas, my wing loading is only about 9 psf but the good news is that the controls are much more responsive than, say, a Cessna 150. The greater challenge is not overcontrolling when making corrections in response to a gust of wind.

Art,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sonex taildragger #95,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jabiru 3300 #261
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Re: Sonex as a first plane?

Postby Rynoth » Mon May 04, 2020 4:04 pm

builderflyer wrote:Yes, wing loading isn't the only factor. Certainly, inertia is very important, too. But if one is only going to consider one factor, wing loading isn't to be ignored when dealing with turbulence or a wind gust when landing.. When I fly my Sonex, alone and with a half tank of gas, my wing loading is only about 9 psf but the good news is that the controls are much more responsive than, say, a Cessna 150. The greater challenge is not overcontrolling when making corrections in response to a gust of wind.

Art,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sonex taildragger #95,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jabiru 3300 #261


I think this has less to do with wing loading and more to do with static/dynamic stability. The same reason that a Sonex is more "nimble" is why it's also more feisty in gusty winds. It's also the reason it's more fun to fly, and isn't a great IFR platform.
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Re: Sonex as a first plane?

Postby N190YX » Mon May 04, 2020 10:28 pm

As far as learning to fly a Sonex/Waiex, it is like any airplane, fly it by the numbers, and learn tailwheel procedures (force the tail up on takeoff or let it come up on its own, wheel landings versus 3 point landings). I took instruction in a Sonex taildragger when the factory was offering it. My tail dragger background was in renting Piper Cubs and my first airplane was a Cessna 170B. The Cessna 170 was, frankly, squirrelly in ground operations, the Piper Cubs less so but you had to pay attention on takeoff and landing. Tail draggers are unstable because the center of gravity is behind the main gear so when the airplane starts to turn, the center of gravity wants to spin the tail around to the front, called a ground loop. The Sonex/Waiex (Zenos also?) have positive tail wheel steering by push pull rods, not the springs which allow the tail wheel to swivel like on my Cessna and Piper Cubs. So I found the Sonex handled like a nosewheel airplane when the tailwheel was on the ground, positive steering, and the rudder was powerful enough for directional control when the tail wheel was off the ground during takeoffs and landings. No need for separate right and left toe brakes. In another thread here I read about builders considering changing to castering tailwheels. This may result in what I found to be a very stable configuration to one that may be less stable. Consider the pros and cons of such a change. What are you gaining at the expense of a less stable ground handling airplane?
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Re: Sonex as a first plane?

Postby GraemeSmith » Tue May 05, 2020 7:23 am

N190YX wrote:In another thread here I read about builders considering changing to castering tailwheels. This may result in what I found to be a very stable configuration to one that may be less stable. Consider the pros and cons of such a change. What are you gaining at the expense of a less stable ground handling airplane?

Of course the benefit is a dramatically reduced turning circle for taxi operations - but your noted loss of stability if the wheel breaks away on a t/o or landing.

What we need is the P51 setup!

P51 Pilot Notes wrote:Taxi with stick slightly aft of neutral. This will lock the tail wheel. In the locked position the tail wheel may be turned 6 degrees to the right or left by use of the rudder pedals. For sharp turns, push stick forward of the neutral position to allow the tail wheel full swiveling action.
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