Unauthorized X-plane?

[SvingenB]

Just saw the unauthorized copy thread/message. Just wondering where does Sonex draw the line? What about a model for X-plane for instance? Just curious.

[mike.smith]

I doubt that would raise any red flags. Sonex issues one set of plans for one airframe. You can't make parts or distribute construction drawings from an X-plane model. I don't see how X-plane would violate any intellectual rights. But making detailed, exact parts in 3D is plagiarism. No different, really, than copying someone else's book or speech. Copyright laws allow some limited copying of written works for personal use, but it's very limited. If someone is making digital copies of parts in 2D or 3D I think it would be best to keep that information and data to themselves.

[kmacht]

But why? What was posted on the forum were only pictures. He was not offering the cad models to anyone and wasn't selling any parts or services made from his drawings. He said that it was only done as drawing was his hobby. I personally don't see what the problem was and would have loved to have drawings like that when I was trying to design my paint scheme. The x-plane model would be more of a grey area if someone is charging for it and calling it a sonex.

Keith
#554

[rizzz]

The thing is, with what he has appeared to have done, one could buy the required aluminum and steel, take it to a machine shop or some manufacturer with the required tools, along with the digital drawings he made and have them make you a near complete Sonex kit with matchted hole technology and everything. And if you can do that you can go into production with it as well and sell competing Sonex kits, partial kits or parts.
Maybe this guy was not intending to do this but if his work ever got out there someone else could. I believe that’s what Sonex is worried about.

It appears Sonex has not made a big impression on him as the Sonex models are still on his website. He is now working on a Piper Cub model.
You can say what you want but he is one talented guy for sure, maybe Sonex should employ him, keep your friends close and enemies even closer :-).

[kmacht]

You could take a set of A model blueprints to a sheet metal shop and do the same thing. Just the pictures he posted here on the forum would not be enough for any shop to make the parts. There is nothing keeping you from doing the same thing as long as it is for your own use and you are not selling or distributing anything. I think that sonex was too heavy handed and disappointed that the forum owners caved so quickly to remove what was nothing more than some pictures of someone showing off their hobby. There was nothing in those pictures that couldn't spread be seen on dozens of other builders websites and I'm glad he kept them.on his website.

Keith
#554

[rizzz]

You could take a set of A model blueprints to a sheet metal shop and do the same thing. Just the pictures he posted here on the forum would not be enough for any shop to make the parts. There is nothing keeping you from doing the same thing as long as it is for your own use and you are not selling or distributing anything. I think that sonex was too heavy handed and disappointed that the forum owners caved so quickly to remove what was nothing more than some pictures of someone showing off their hobby. There was nothing in those pictures that couldn't spread be seen on dozens of other builders websites and I'm glad he kept them.on his website.

Keith
#554

With a set of plans you will still have to digitalize the drawings to program the machines, which is where all the work lies.
That’s essentially what this guy has done, SolidWorks drawings like these, if accurate, can be converted directly into files to program CNC machines, 3D printers etc.

But I agree with you that there is no harm in sharing jpg images of the drawings as long as they don’t contain dimension data etc, nobody can do anything with that.
Like I said, I believe what Sonex fears is the SolidWorks files themselves one day getting out.

[Onex107]

You could take a set of A model blueprints to a sheet metal shop and do the same thing. Just the pictures he posted here on the forum would not be enough for any shop to make the parts. There is nothing keeping you from doing the same thing as long as it is for your own use and you are not selling or distributing anything. I think that sonex was too heavy handed and disappointed that the forum owners caved so quickly to remove what was nothing more than some pictures of someone showing off their hobby. There was nothing in those pictures that couldn't spread be seen on dozens of other builders websites and I'm glad he kept them.on his website.

Keith
#554

With a set of plans you will still have to digitalize the drawings to program the machines, which is where all the work lies.
That’s essentially what this guy has done, SolidWorks drawings like these, if accurate, can be converted directly into files to program CNC machines, 3D printers etc.

But I agree with you that there is no harm in sharing jpg images of the drawings as long as they don’t contain dimension data etc, nobody can do anything with that.
Like I said, I believe what Sonex fears is the SolidWorks files themselves one day getting out.

Onex107
SolidWorks does contain all the dimensions. He just doesn't show them in the pictures. There is a CNC software that will convert the SolidWorks design directly into machine language which can be used on any CNC machine. Mills, burning tables, 3D printers.
Copyright law, and patent law, requires that you publicly protect your utterance or you can loose the right to it if it becomes common language. ie: Kleenex, wheelbarrow, etc.

[Archer123]

Frankly, as someone interested in purchasing a kit I thought the 3D drawings were extremely helpful to visualize the various assemblies. Sonex may have these type views in their plans... but if not they sure would be helpful IMO. A set of preview plans without dimensions might make another product for prospective customers..

As fas as duplicating the airframe... the wing spars are something I think would inhibit knockoffs... but who knows. In the end, as someone who has had product designs "ripped off"... by a major airplane manufacture of all things.... I sure can understand Sonex position on this situation. ( the manufacture did settle when I "caught" them...)

I would like to see/see additional focus from Sonex on the Aerovee engine issues I see posted on this forum. The things I read about have completely eliminated that engine option for me. Why they refuse to sell a tested engine makes no sense to me... unless they have liability concerns. It can't be the assembly time required.. quoted by Sonex to be as little as 4 hours in a youtube video.