Waiex B Model with Jabiru 2200?

[Flynic3]

Good Afternoon Jabiru owners,

I am extremely interested in using a Jabiru 2200 for my Sonex Waiex B model project however am concerned that this is not even an option for the B models. From what I was reading the 3300 mount is what is avialable for the B model Waiex and I was wondering if this would work with the Jabiru 2200 engine? I am interested in upgrading the Jabiru 2200 with the EFI setup from SDS/Edge performance and possibly later to a VVT turbo installation from Edge performance. Would the 2200/3300 Jabiru Engine mount handle the extra weight and thrust of these upgrades? Does anyone have any experience with these upgrades on the Jabiru 2200 engines? I am interested in doing these upgrades in stages and would more than likely start with the EFI upgrade. I am interested in this setup because I may have the opportunity to purchase a 0 time Jabiru 2200. I am also looking into using the fourth generation 2210 engines that will be released soon. I could upgrade the 2200 to EFI for less than the cost of the 3300 and even with a turbo upgrade later would still be under the cost of a Rotax 912is or UL260i engines. Worst case scenario if there are issues with high tempatures in the upgraded engine than Rotec sells a liquid cooled head upgrade! I would also consider going this route with upgrading a Rotax 912uls in the same manner however would prefer the Jabiru for its direct drive and air-cooling. I think with all the added mess in the engine bay of an EFI/Turbo upgrade that liquid cooling would get in the way.... that being said this may be the best route to control tempatures! I would love to hear what you all think about this project and I am sure I will hear that I am crazy a time or two! That being said, if you are not being told you are crazy than you are not pushing the boundaries far enough! True breakthroughs only happen when pushing these boundaries and that is what I am looking for! I just do not want to do it at the cost of safety either!

I look forward to hearing from everyone and am interested if anyone has any experience with the Jabiru 2200 in a Sonex? I would love to hear your experiences with this engine and your thoughts on my project! I greatly appreciate all the helpful insight and wisdom in advance! I look forward to hearing from everyone and am excited to get started working on this project!

I have included YouTube video links for fun!

Jabiru 2200 turbo/EFI Sonex,
https://youtu.be/UpZTusALZ-Q

Rotec Water cooled heads for Jabiru
https://youtu.be/Li9LiDYGQOQ

Rotec Water cooled head test
https://youtu.be/MfftfKg0yvo


Best Regards,

Nicholas Dawson

[Kai]

You're crazy!
Get your ratings first- and accumulate some flying hours before you decide on your own airplane.
You're crazy!
Don't go down the road of prototype turbo aircraft engine development- unless you're an absolute engine nerd who loves to tinker and do not mind the odd sudden engine stoppage.
You're crazy!
Buy a new 33A if you want to build hours and top notch performance is your goal. Shy away from anything that is not fully developed!

And have another look at the video in first Youtube link you listed. The aircraft owner with the red shirt in the cockpit of LN-YKE is definitely an engine nerd. I know- I'm the guy with the red shirt.

[Gordon]

Waiex B Model.....Jabiru 2200?

Nicholas..............Kai made some good points......although a bit blunt. As I understand you mention turbo charging the 2200 rather than just biting the bullet and coming up with an extra 4k for the 3300 engine. This would be a huge mistake in so many ways. Go with a "known quantity" which is the 3300....it is a proven engine. When it comes to flying airplanes.......there are so many things that can "get you"......like weather, poor judgement, etc......the last thing you need is for the "fan up front" to stop turning. That can be fatal given the right circumstance.

I have enough trouble "being comfortable" flying behind a VW engine built by a professional engine builder (Scott Casler....Hummel) never mind some turbo charged experiment. I think you need to do a lot more research in this area first.......and you have lots of time for that since you haven't started to build yet.

It's easy to sit in your easy chair and speculate all kinds of experimental possibilities with engines and quite another to be flying over hostile territory with an engine that starts to "run rough"......just saying.

Gordon........Onex.......Hummel 2400

[Flynic3]

Kia...

I agree with everything you just said and plan on being certified before this build begins...
I am merely in a researching phase at this point and wouldn’t be doing anything this dramatic for quite some time. I tend to pitch crazy ideas sometimes to see what sticks. If I do end up doing a project of this nature with the engine upgrades, then I would do it in stages. I am somewhat of a motor nerd and do love to upgrade my engines... I drive a WRX. That being said, I am not so sure that is the route I want to take with my homebuilt aircraft. If I did do it, I would still seek professional advise and would have them assist in the build. EFI and Turbochargers are no longer in their infancy and if done properly are perfectly safe in an aircraft. I know guys now that are using NOS to give the same performance at altitude similar to a turbo... it is not like a 50-100hp shot like we see in our vehicles. Guys have been using it at Reno for years from what he tells me! I am also interested in the 3310 engine and may go this route as well, I just like the smaller lightweight 2200 if I plan on going turbo. I do like the idea of the smoother running six cylinder and may have to go this route with the Waiex due to the heavier tail. This was something I did not consider and was explained to me in another thread. Maybe a 3310 with NOS instead if a turbo would be perfect! LOL. All joking aside, I am a little bit younger and tend to lean towards the “Let’s try this” approach. I feel this is what is needed in Aviation for it to evolve with the constantly changing technology. GA is dying due to sticking with “The way we have always done it” approach! This is the reason I choose experimental/sport aviation in the first place! I want to be able to do whatever modification I would like to my aircraft. That being said, it is always good to have the advice of those who have been there done that and tend to stick with that works! I think it takes a good balance of both to create innovative and safe aircraft..

Gordon,

I agree with your statements as well my friend and appreciate the well thought out post. This is one reason I post on these forums is to wake me up from a late night crazy idea. That being said the main reason I am interested in a turbo is not for the increased power output but the sustained power at altitude. I am very fimilar with turbo setup and design on multiple car engines. My concern is that I am stepping into a new domain with air cooled aircraft engines. I would honestly be interested in a small boost system probably running less than 6psi. With the newer VVT turbo technology you can create a lot from a little when it comes to power output. The stresses on the engine are also much less but again this comes from automotive experience not aircraft. I am primarily concerned about two major points with the Jabiru engines. I am concerned about crankshaft stress on a crankshaft that is already known for issues on the 2200. Second I am worried about the CHTs of this engine, especially when the engine is under boost pressure. I am interested in the 3300 as well and really want to see one of the Gen4 3310’s in person. If I went with this option I would still be interested in upgrades such as EFI and possibly running N20 for the sustained power at altitude. It looks at this point like that will be the only option with the heavier tail of the Waiex. The whole reason I was looking into the 2200 engine was the possibility of getting a good deal on a local 0 time Jabiru 2200. This got my wheels turning as the power output was the same as the AeroVee. If I could get the 2200 for around the same price as the AeroVee than I figured this would be a great way to complete the build on a budget!


Best Regards,

Nicholas Dawson