Machined Angle Component Kit

[tps8903]

Hello,eveyone,

My first post here on the forum.

I am getting serious about buying a Sonex kit after discerning which kit I would buy for about 3 years now. I'm looking to get started in the spring (Currently moving to a new house!).

Quick question. The Machined Angle Components cost $1900 on the Sonex site. It also says there is 73 pieces and saves about 200 hours of time.

That's 164 minutes of fabrication time per part!!!! That seems like a lot to me for bandsaw and drill press time.

What do you guys think. Is the 200 hours slightly over stated?

I'm comfortable making these parts, but 200 hours is a large amount of time to "buy back" with $1900.

Also, any Sonex builders near Carleton Place, Ontario?

Chris

[kmacht]

164 minutes per part isn't unreasonable for an average. That is 2 to 3 hours per part. It isn't just cutting and drilling. You also have to factor the time to read and understand the plans, find the appropriate stock, measure and layout the dimensions on the material, cut the material to size, smooth and debur all the edges, drill the pilot holes and then deburr them. This is all assuming you don't mess up somwhere in the process and have to make the part over again.

I agree that $1900 seems to be getting expensive for the machined components kit. I thought it was quite a bit less than that when it first came out. Figuring that you can get out and work on the plane for 10 hours a week, that 200 hours is a 20 week time savings. It is up to you if spending $1900 is worth flying 5 months earlier.

Keith
(on the 8th year of scratch building a 3 year scheduled build)

[RodgerC]

I think the answer to your question lies in your motivation to build...If you're building to fly, then the $1900 is a worthwhile investment. If however you're building to build (love the process) then it's detracting from your motivation.

I'm building to fly and have not regretted buying the angle kit....I feel for me it has saved the 200 hours.

[EricS]

Chris,

I would agree with Rodger, if you're building to build and are not concerned about flying right away, then not purchasing the angle component kit may be the way to go. I was on the fence when trying to decide which route to take. I just happened to purchase a well-priced pre-owned Waiex kit that had the angle component kit option. After having a few hours of build time under my belt now, I'm glad that I have the angle kit. I really like building, but I also want to be able to fly in about 3 years. Having the component kit also allows me to see larger parts come together more quickly which further increases my motivation. I like seeing the visual progress ;) I would also agree with Keith that the 200 hour estimate is very reasonable or maybe a little low. Some of the parts are quite complex.

I am really impressed with the quality of the components. They are all very accurate when comparing them to the plans and have a nice smooth tumbled finish.

Good luck with purchasing the kit!

[Mike53]

When I ordered my Onex kit I omitted the machined angle parts.After bringing the 10ft pallet home and going through the inventory I realized that the Machined angle parts were also in the packaging .Once I looked at all the components that I would have to make I quickly decided that I wanted to keep them,so I contacted Sonex and made a deal to keep them.I don't regret it at all.
You have to keep in mind that the components are not just cut to size and shape perfectly they also have all the matched holes in place already.So it's really about saving time and the shear accuracy of the matched punched holes.Keep in mind all the holes still have to be up-drilled.

Here is a link to find builders close to you. http://builder.sonexaircraft.com/cgi-bi ... action=map
Cheers,
Mike

[kmacht]

If you are building because you like building and not to just fly I would still consider getting the machined angle kit. It is very possible that your motivations may change during the build. I started building because I liked building. The fact that I would one day fly something I built added some motivation but wasn't the main driver when I started. Now that I am almost there I am at the point where I don't enjoy going out to work on the plane as much and would really rather be up in the air. The excitement of creating a part starts to wear off after the first 1000 hours of building. Sitting at the end of the build process if there was a way I could have sped it up by 200 hours worth of work I probably would have done it knowing what I know now. There is still plenty to build on the plane even if you buy every option that sonex sells.

Keith
#554

P.S. If Sonex really wanted to make some money they would find a way to make a pre fit / laser drilled canopy and cowling. I would have paid thousands for those to be already done for me and easily saved 200 hours worth of work.

[gtae07]

I personally decided not to get the machined angle, though it's because I'm in a bit of an interesting situation. I'm still working on saving up the money for the kit (two months to go), but I'd already ordered the plans so I could start looking them over and getting an idea of how the airplane went together, make notes from others' experiences, etc. I realized that for about $200 extra I could order some angle from Spruce (cheaper than the local metal supply co!) and work on those parts while I finished saving up for the rest of the kit. By my log, I'm on pace to finish these parts right about the time the kit would be delivered.

[142YX]

..I was on the fence when trying to decide which route to take. I just happened to purchase a well-priced pre-owned Waiex kit that had the angle component kit option. After having a few hours of build time under my belt now, I'm glad that I have the angle kit.

I feel the same way, but i did not buy the angle kit. I wanted to learn as much as possible during the build process, so i did not get any of the quick build options.

And boy did i learn a thing or two about aluminum construction! The reality of the situation is that after you make about 5 brackets.. you have learned the trade. You wont be a professional, but you will know enough to get buy. And you will certainly get this experience whether you get the quick build option or not. I am glad that i did it "the hard way" (but not the really hard way, i'll leave that honor to the scratch builders), and am glad i learned a lot.. but if i had to do it all over again i would have payed the extra to have all of the quick build options thrown in there.

The aluminum construction became tedious after a year and a half of making one metal part after another. I have recently received a huge motivational shot in the arm though.. installing the systems you are doing something different every week. I like doing new things and i see the finishing process as one that will keep me motivated. If i ever build another aluminum kit plane.. i will be getting the quick build all the way.

[structurespilot]

I have read the last post by 142YX, and taken offence to your comments. You have not even come close to learning the trade after making 5 brackets. You have only learned how to read one type of drawing, measure, layout rivet holes, and deburr the edges. The "trade" of being an airframe mechanic is far more complicated. Just because you have ordered some metal and made a few parts, doesn't make you even close to knowledgeable.
There's also a huge difference between someone who assembles aircraft parts in a Cessna factory, and a Airframe mechanic.
I also wasn't a professional pilot after my first solo either.

[142YX]

I have read the last post by 142YX, and taken offence to your comments. You have not even come close to learning the trade after making 5 brackets. You have only learned how to read one type of drawing, measure, layout rivet holes, and deburr the edges. The "trade" of being an airframe mechanic is far more complicated. Just because you have ordered some metal and made a few parts, doesn't make you even close to knowledgeable.
There's also a huge difference between someone who assembles aircraft parts in a Cessna factory, and a Airframe mechanic.
I also wasn't a professional pilot after my first solo either.

Sorry, i seem to have struck a nerve.. i did not mean to offend anyone who works professionally as an airframe mechanic. I have much respect for the profession as i work with A&Ps every single day.

I think my comment was taken out of context.. or perhaps it was a poor chose of words. My use of "trade" was an exaggeration. I did not mean that making 5 aluminum brackets will make you a professional airframe mechanic, there clearly is infinitely more to learn on the subject. What i meant was that after making 5 aluminum brackets.. if you happen to be the handy type (which i would hope you are if you are building an airplane) you will probably be pretty good at making aluminum brackets, and could probably, confidently, make any number of other similar aluminum bracket. Yea, you will get better and better as time goes on, but for making brackets out of extrusion stock.. the learning curve is pretty fast.

My liberal use of the word "trade" slipped out as this is a forum for people who build simple airplanes in their garage.. not a forum for licensed professionals.

Sorry to have offended.. i owe you a beer. We cool?