What do I look for when buying used.

[helifrek]

I definitely appreciate all the great information be given to me guys. Looking at the Skyvector site the flight to NC would be 219Nm and it would be about an hour and a half flight. The trip to Ohio would be 420Nm and about a 3 hour flight (estimating a cruise speed of 140) so I could make the trip to NC without stopping and I could make the Ohio trip with One stop (I think).

Yes the fuel cost isn't the only deciding factor, it is the overall hourly operational costs that I have been looking at online. with a TBO cost up to $20K for a Cherokee (from what I read), that is a scary number! I understand the engine in the Sonex may not make it to its TBO time before needing maintenance but it will be a heck of a lot cheaper and I can do some of the maintenance myself ( I was a Blackhawk helicopter mechanic in the army for 5 years so I have some aircraft maintenance expierence). For major repairs I would probably take the engine to Jabiru NA (about a 2 hour drive).

For 2 people with no children who have made 15 hour drives in my little Nissan sentra I think the Sonex would be perfect for us. We both pack lightly (we're seriously loosing weight!) and we don't mind being squeezed in a sardine can :)

My wife and I were able to sit in a Sonex owned locally and it was pretty comfortable, my wife even got to go for a ride! it was a hot day and I was to fat to to risk flying on the aerovee engine! pilot was about my size so it probably would have been over gross. My wife loved it though.

I am sure I could afford something larger and faster and with more seats but I have a few other hobbies to feed cash into and my wife loves spending money as well! We could live in a camper a eat ramen noodles and buy a small jet to fly around in. If I just wanted to fly around and have fun I would get a quicksilver. When I say visit NC regularly I mean something like every other weekend and only with good flying conditions and not in the winter.

Also I have to consider monthly hangar fees and I think I could probably split a hanger with someone with a smaller plane.

Realistically I can afford about $1000 a month towards owning an airplane (not including initial cost to purchase the plane) With the Sonex, this leaves me a lot of room for unexpected issues and I would be able to fill it up and fly whenever I want without putting $250 in the gas tank!

keep the feedback coming though, I do enjoy the different points of view. I have been looking at the Cherokees for sale on barnstormers and there are some great deals.

[Bryan Cotton]

A bunch of my former Sikorsky co-workers got their A&P after working on aircraft in the service. That would make owning a spam can much more affordable. Your weight loss goals are extreme, and it only gets harder as you get older! If you are truly committed though you should consider Josh's turbo trigear. He had the same mission as you, but he and his wife already fit the weight capabilities of the Sonex. Nicely built too.

If you go spam can don't just fixate on Cherokees. Cessna makes good airplanes too, as do some of the other companies. Do your research!

[airscribe]

helifrek -- good luck and keep plowing ahead....

For what it's worth, have owned a Cherokee 140 and a Comanche 180; logged about 1,800 hours in the two over a span of 10 years, about 20 percent of those with my late wife and gear....if she was still living I'd consider another Comanche...could afford to buy another of either one...but....

My current project is a Waiex with the AeroVee Turbo....after sitting in three different kit planes and with air time in 50-plus other GA models -- and losing about 80 pounds four years ago -- the Waiex was my selection for the common reasons: Like how it flies, love how it looks, and want something with direct operating costs low enough that I can fly anywhere at any time work allows...without worrying about the impact on the household budget.

And my plan is to use it the way you and your wife intend to use your airplane....medium to long cross-country flying, with aux fuel to extend range, but stopping as needed....

My take: Different strokes for different folks. Some happily blast around their home airspace; others love to toss themselves around taking advantage of the Sonex lines' aerobatic capabilities. My use will include that kind of flying.

But coming from ultralights and other experimental aircraft, count me on your side. Packing light, taking the time you need, not rushing and stopping with good fuel reserves and any airplane will get you there...heck, an acquaintance of mine flies his Champ from the west coast of Oregon to Oshkosh every two or three years....he (here we go) packs light, takes his time, stops with plenty of fuel and gets there -- and back.

So urge you to follow your dream and remember that you're looking at use to suit you and your bride, which may not be another pilot's cup of tea -- but is imminently doable.

Good luck!

[helifrek]

Well, I had written up this really long post and then somebody shut my computer down......

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I have been doing more and more research on the Cherokee and the biggest selling point to me is the extra seats. I would love to be able to take family for rides and even bring some family back to TN from NC or OH every once in awhile. It is also a very good looking aircraft and from what I have been reading it seems to out perform and 172 and have better flight characteristics. I really appreciate the suggestion of the Cherokee, I might go after that after all. I think in the long run (just guessing) that the cost would even out. The Sonex would probably require a lot more small cheaper stuff at short intervals and the Cherokee would require more expensive items at longer intervals.

Thanks again everyone, I will eventually get back to you guys with what I choose. If I decide on the Cherokee I would probably just go ahead and get one to get my license with.

[LarryEWaiex121]

Helifreak,

As an owner that has done considerable cross-country in his Waiex with Camit power now and previously, Jabiru power; I'd say the Sonex design is not the route I'd go with my wife sitting next to me for hours on end. No easy access in-flight, to onboard gear.
The fuel issue will always require a quick stop at the mid point. I've stretched my cross-country's to a max range of 315 miles. That barely left 30 min. reserves. Normal flight will get you 2 hrs and 275 miles downrange with a Jabiru 3300.
As for the engine equation, you've already sorted that one out. The Aero-Vee just isn't going to fit your mission at gross weight.
I like many figured I would have both seats filled up most of the time. The reality is I fly solo, probably 18 out of 20 flights. Not that many people want to go on the spur of the moment. For that reason, the Waiex is a hoot for me. Lots of power, sporty handling and cool avionics I can change and do as I want with. Experimental.
The one issue that's not getting any better in my area is hanger cost. Started out $250 10yrs ago and now its sitting at $300. That's $30 per hour for 10 hrs per month. Essentially, hanger, fuel and insurance are my 3 costs that drive the math.

Larry
Waiex121YX, Camit 3300, Skyview, 528 hrs AF

[vwglenn]

It is also a very good looking aircraft and from what I have been reading it seems to out perform and 172 and have better flight characteristics.

If you like the Cherokee, look into the Grumman Cheetah and Traveler...Maybe even a Yankee with a gross weight increase and 150Hp.

[andrewp]

+1 Glenn's comment on the Grumman

[builderflyer]

It's just me but I wouldn't buy a 40 + year old airplane that's made of aluminum and has been glued together and has probably been sitting outside in the elements for years. I remember back when Grumman (I believe they were building them at the time) changed the process in the way the gluing was accomplished in the factory and they began to have failures.

Art

[martinwalker1]

I look for best value and the best flying aircraft. If you compare a 40 year old C172 or PA28 to a 20 year old Maule MXT-7-180 you will see that the prices are the virtually the same. If you look under the cowling of the Cessna or Cherokee you'll almost certainly see some automotive parts or indications of hard landings. A 40 year old airplane was probably a trainer for some part of it's life. Also compare the price of parts for Cessnas Cherokees and Maules.

Martin
Xenos N922PL

[andrewp]

It's just me but I wouldn't buy a 40 + year old airplane that's made of aluminum and has been glued together and has probably been sitting outside in the elements for years. I remember back when Grumman (I believe they were building them at the time) changed the process in the way the gluing was accomplished in the factory and they began to have failures.

Art

So a 55 year old 182 really wouldn't be your jam ;-) I hear you on the bonding. The Grummans have their issues no doubt and they are slippery on landing apparently and they barely have enough cowling to hold their engine, but I know a few happy owners running around in them. They are sure are quick little buggers for spam can. Not RV quick, but they can move ok. Having said that, the wife would say old school 182 every time. She loves that thing ;-) Alas, that is more money and heartache than a cherokee or a grumman. But that is another story.