Wing skin holes misaligned

[Area 51%]

The skin is oriented correctly, and the holes have been checked for proper spacing. (I used a paper template and compared it to every Sonex I could find at Sun-N-Fun).

The ribs are right-side-up.

What I did find, however, were two ribs that had the part number printed directly on the ribs (as opposed to the little white labels on all the rest of my ribs). Those two ribs do not have the flutes that are under the rivet holes. The flute count on the white label ribs is 11 on top, and 8 on the bottom. The others have 10 and 7.

I can't justify the possibility of screwing-up the spars by drilling-out and replacing the LH wing ribs, so some solution, weather it be flattening the offending flutes or drilling a new rivet hole, will be in order. The RH skeleton isn't riveted yet, so new ribs could probably still be in it's future. Although, that might result in asymmetrical rivet patterns. And in the words of that great contemporary poet 'Bryan'; "it will probably cost me the Grand Champion trophy".

It has been pointed out to me on a regular basis, that my existance on this planet is to serve as a warning to others. If you posess a Legacy wing kit........count those flutes.

I'm confident my ex-wife is warehouse manager at Sonex.

Wandering around aimlessly here @Area 51%

[SonexFactoryTech]

If you bought the parts from sonex directly and they don't fit then they are defective. You should be asking Sonex to replace the parts. Straightening and moving flutes isn't something you should have to do after spending good money to buy premade ribs. If they think it is no big deal then let them take the ribs back, fix them and try to resell them to someone else. Yes, you could do it but why should you have to?

Keith
#554

I do not understand this instant jump to hostility. Is it the internet that causes this? Faceless, often nameless writers and readers that make this OK? I can't even begin to verbalize my disgust at this attitude and for projecting onto all readers of this thread that Sonex Aircraft does not take care of its customers.

We are working with Randy to rectify his ribs. We have not denied him ribs, nor service. We responded to his first email with a request for photos to fully analyze the issue. That's what we do. We try to work with facts to provide a correct answer rather than a fast answer.

Kerry Fores

Technical Support Manager
Sonex Aircraft LLC

[kmacht]

Faceless and nameless? I don't think so. I signed the post just like I do all my posts. My contact info is readily available on the sonex website. I didn't say anything in that post that I wouldn't have said in person to you or the builder having the problem.

The builder posted that he had ribs with the flutes in the wrong place. He asked sonex what to do and was told to straighten and move the flutes which didn't set right with him. After now also verifying that the ribs are marked differently and the number of flutes are different than the other ribs you are still requiring him to provide photos Why the reluctance to not just send him some new ribs? He paid good money to sonex for ribs that are supposed to be correct. Sonex now has him jumping through hoops just to get a new rib to worth maybe a few dollars worth of aluminum. The disgust in this thread is that the customer support and quality control at sonex has gone significantly downhill You should be looking at what to do about saving the companies reputation instead of blaming those who call you out and making customers jump through hoops to fix an obvious quality escape.

Keith Macht
#554

[peter anson]

What I did find, however, were two ribs that had the part number printed directly on the ribs (as opposed to the little white labels on all the rest of my ribs). Those two ribs do not have the flutes that are under the rivet holes. The flute count on the white label ribs is 11 on top, and 8 on the bottom. The others have 10 and 7.

Hi Randy, my drawings show 10 flutes on top and 7 on the bottom. That's how I made them (I have a few spares) and everything fitted well, and it sounds like the 11/8 ribs are the ones causing you problems. I'm probably telling you stuff you already know but you need to be able to tell Sonex exactly what the problem is. Since the skins are correct you should compare the rib flutes with the locations shown on the drawing.
If you decide to replace ribs you shouldn't be too dismayed by the prospect of drilling out rivets. Just about every builder has had to do a few and it's not a big deal. As several people have suggested, it would probably be quicker to try straightening the flute possibly using seaming pliers. It won't look as pretty, but as long as you can get the flange reasonably flat it should work OK.

Peter

[Ercoupechris]

I have so far found Sonex to be more than fair in helping to resolve issues when they come up. I originally bought my Waiex kit third hand and have never found so much as an inkling of difficulty in resolving problems. I recently discovered a problem with my Jabiru "B" model engine mount that was discovered several months after delivery. I received an email just today from Kerry saying it was being sent back to be repaired or replaced. I am personally glad to see Sonex defend their position on this Forum and hope they will continue to do so. Sonex is not perfect (who is?) but I am still glad I chose them and have little doubt that they will continue to do the right thing.

On an aside, I believe the approach taken when contacting Sonex, or any other manufacturer, has an awful lot to do with the response you receive in return. I don't think some realize how lucky we are to be dealing with Sonex. As with most things, experience teaches a lot. Ask any builder what their experience was/is like with other kit manufacturers. I think you'd be surprised.

[wlarson861]

I too feel compelled to defend Sonex on their service. Last year I had problems with both the turbo charger and a set of heads. Both were repaired by Sonex with no out of pocket expense to me. Sure it's annoying when things break or are not right when received but it happens. At least when we call for help it is to someone we have met, not "Robert" in India!

[rizzz]

I think this is again nothing more than a misunderstanding.

In Keith’s defence, I don’t believe he intended any hostility towards the factory in any way (Of course Keith, please correct me if I’m wrong here).
All Keith was saying was that having paid a fair amount of for a product, you expect the product not to be faulty but if it is, you have a right to have it exchanged and should not have to fix it yourself.
I see no hostility in that statement.

However (and here’s where I think the misunderstanding originates from), I also don’t think Sonex would refuse replacing parts that were defective, but I think in this case it’s really a matter of trying to find a solution that causes as little disruption to the project as possible, isn’t it?
If the problem with the flutes was discovered before the ribs were attached to the spars it would have been an easy decision, just get them replaced and work on something else whilst you wait for the new ones to arrive. But that’s not the case here.
And let’s be honest, moving/removing a few flutes is going to take a couple of hours at most which is a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things.
Waiting for new ribs to be shipped, drilling out the old ones, preparing & installing the new ones once you receive them, … is going to take a lot more time and effort,
And if the factory says structurally there is no issue, that’s probably the way I would go as well. Once the skin is on, nobody will know.

[inventor]

Sonex backs up their kits and I have had a few issues that have been resolved with no problems. I don't think that asking for photos of the bad parts is an unnecessary step in resolving the problem. The company needs to find out what went wrong so it can fix the problem and I would not have any problem assisting them to help with their manufacturing quality control. We all make mistakes and discovering them is an important step in resolving a problem.

Onex 150

[9GT]

The lot of the wing ribs in my RV-10 kit all had to be massaged slightly to get them to fit correctly. This included building a special tool to bend the flanges a perfect 90* and also using fluting pliers to prevent any pillowing of the skins. No way the pre-punched rivet holes would line up without doing this. Another thing I found helpful would be to use several pointed scribes to help pull and hold the holes in alignment prior to installing cleco's or rivets.

[sonex1374]

Guys,

Keep in mind that Sonex Aircraft is made up of real people....John and Mark, Kerry and Levi, and all the others. They're not a faceless corporation in some far away place. They really do want all of us to be successful. They do this because they are passionate about airplanes, they love the fact that they can earn a living playing with little airplanes all day, and are committed to supporting customers in pursuing their dreams as well. Without Sonex and other kit companies like them, we'd all be flying 50 yr old Cessnas complaining about the sky-high annuals, or working off archaic plans drawn on napkins. Sometimes we loose sight of just how good we have it with someone like Sonex Aircraft in our corner.

So yes, we'll have problems that come up during our builds. We'll make mistakes, and so will Sonex. But give them the benefit of the doubt and a chance to show you that they've got your back. Airplane building is not so much a transaction as a relationship. Cultivate your relationship with the community of builders, suppliers, and enthusiasts, and the community will help you persevere and succeed.

Jeff