Update navworx adsb boxes

[mike.smith]

Am i misreading their website, iLevel or not comprehending correctly whats listed, ie the new iLevel3 AW with optional certified gps source(like the new trig tn72 unit) would meet the requirements and be adsb out? For experimentals?

Unless they say it has ADSB-out and meets the mandate, it doesn't. From reading the product on their web site, it's not an "out" device. It only has an option for a certified GPS signal to go into the box. They say, " iLevil AW can be used as a portable or permanent-mount instrument." From everything the FAA has said in seminars, if it's portable at all, then it will NEVER be a compliant "out" device.

I would absolutely be happy to be proved wrong, so I'm going to contact the company and ask.

[fastj22]

Am i misreading their website, iLevel or not comprehending correctly whats listed, ie the new iLevel3 AW with optional certified gps source(like the new trig tn72 unit) would meet the requirements and be adsb out? For experimentals?

Unless they say it has ADSB-out and meets the mandate, it doesn't. From reading the product on their web site, it's not an "out" device. It only has an option for a certified GPS signal to go into the box. They say, " iLevil AW can be used as a portable or permanent-mount instrument." From everything the FAA has said in seminars, if it's portable at all, then it will NEVER be a compliant "out" device.

I would absolutely be happy to be proved wrong, so I'm going to contact the company and ask.

Its a bit confusing, but I read their description that you can get a certified GPS option that can provide another ADS-B squitter the location data via a serial interface. The unit itself does not provide ADS-B out. If it does, they need to write their product description.

[fastj22]

Michael,
Your post below has stirred up a bit of conversation on the various forums. Within 12 hours of your post, one of the guys on vansairforce (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/s ... rx&page=31) texted with Bill Moffit and had this to say:

There's a ton of information in that thread. Some of those Vans guys really know their stuff.
One thing I gleaned was the way Navworx sniffs the squawk code and pressure altitude from a Mode C transponder. My Skyguard does the same thing. But I've noticed I don't always see myself until I get high enough even though I see towers on WingX and am seeing other traffic. It seems the unit will not send your location information unless it can get the pressure altitude from your transponder and your mode C transponder only sends it when it gets pinged by ATC. So even though the Skyguard is sniffing my squawk and PA, unless I'm in a radar area, I don't send out my position and thus don't see myself all the time.

So, they didn't go into it, but does Mode S always send out PA? Or can you hard wire your transponder to the ADS-B transceiver to always send PA to the unit? Or is everyone just speculating like a bunch of gossips in a knitting circle.

[mike.smith]

One thing I gleaned was the way Navworx sniffs the squawk code and pressure altitude from a Mode C transponder. My Skyguard does the same thing. But I've noticed I don't always see myself until I get high enough even though I see towers on WingX and am seeing other traffic. It seems the unit will not send your location information unless it can get the pressure altitude from your transponder and your mode C transponder only sends it when it gets pinged by ATC. So even though the Skyguard is sniffing my squawk and PA, unless I'm in a radar area, I don't send out my position and thus don't see myself all the time.

The Skyguard setup manual shows a static pressure line directly into the Skyguard box. So shouldn't the box get the PA directly from the static pressure line? I've been emailing with the company and have asked them a boat load of questions. For you, I'll just ask if you like the system and how it's wired and plumbed? I did note on their diagram they show 4 UAT antennas! Do you have 4 antennas?

[fastj22]

One thing I gleaned was the way Navworx sniffs the squawk code and pressure altitude from a Mode C transponder. My Skyguard does the same thing. But I've noticed I don't always see myself until I get high enough even though I see towers on WingX and am seeing other traffic. It seems the unit will not send your location information unless it can get the pressure altitude from your transponder and your mode C transponder only sends it when it gets pinged by ATC. So even though the Skyguard is sniffing my squawk and PA, unless I'm in a radar area, I don't send out my position and thus don't see myself all the time.

The Skyguard setup manual shows a static pressure line directly into the Skyguard box. So shouldn't the box get the PA directly from the static pressure line? I've been emailing with the company and have asked them a boat load of questions. For you, I'll just ask if you like the system and how it's wired and plumbed? I did note on their diagram they show 4 UAT antennas! Do you have 4 antennas?

There is no port for the pressure. It actually has 6 antennae. Gps, transponder sniffer, wifi, UAT out, UAT in, and 1090 in. I put two external UAT on the belly, one for in, one for out and a third for the mode C transponder out. The two outs have to be 5 ft apart. The sniffer, 1090 and wifi use a short whip attached to the case. The gps is a magnetic puck with a 10ft cable. It comes with a cigarette lighter power adapter I just cut and wired into my panel on a switch. I mounted it behind my shoulders on a tray.
I initially had some gps problems, dropping fixes periodically. I bought a second antenna off amazon and it cleared up. There is some software upgrade I need to send it back to have done, but he is doing it in batches and told us we can fly with what we have until it gets done.

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi all,
For anyone that has a navworx unit and is interested in this whole saga and how did we get to this, the reading on the VAF site is quite enlightening. 32 pages and lots of links. Most interesting and up to date info on page 27 from gil alexander a couple posts. The FOIA request from navworx to faa is interesting also. Seems like navworx will rise up soon and be back in normal business. As in emails dont bounce back, staff gets rehired, , phone lines dont go directly to a already full recorder.we shall see. So mark baker was correct , according to gil's post, the AEA is talking with th faa on fixes for the affected boxes. Inflamatory letters removed from company website. Im sure aopa members petioned them to contact the faa and AEA to help resolve this . If the aopa tried to contact navworx and got no response because the owner was in hawaii on some R&R , then i can see how they assumed navworx was kaput. Lets see what happens.


WaiexN143NM
Michael

[JohnAJohnson]

...One thing I gleaned was the way Navworx sniffs the squawk code and pressure altitude from a Mode C transponder. My Skyguard does the same thing. But I've noticed I don't always see myself until I get high enough even though I see towers on WingX and am seeing other traffic. It seems the unit will not send your location information unless it can get the pressure altitude from your transponder and your mode C transponder only sends it when it gets pinged by ATC. So even though the Skyguard is sniffing my squawk and PA, unless I'm in a radar area, I don't send out my position and thus don't see myself all the time.

So, they didn't go into it, but does Mode S always send out PA? Or can you hard wire your transponder to the ADS-B transceiver to always send PA to the unit? Or is everyone just speculating like a bunch of gossips in a knitting circle.

Interesting you should bring this up... I installed a Navworx system in my plane in August and the PAPPRs have shown 30%-50% errors with Mode 3A and Baro ALT. As you suspect, the transponder won't output till it gets pinged by ground radar, or a TCAS airplane overhead, and the Navworx will only begin transmitting when it gets the squawk and baro alt from the Transmon. To troubleshoot, I swapped all parts possible with my buddy (he has the same system in his plane) including Transmon, GTX327 transponder, the ADS600-B Navworx box itself, both the transponder and UAT antennas, all, with no help. Last week I finally wired the Navworx ADS600-B box directly to my GTX327 transponder for Mode 3A (squawk code) and directly to my Ack 30.9 Encoder for baro alt. Now the system fires up and starts transmitting immediately. Very, very nice. So my results with an inductance type data gathering system (the transmon) have not been positive. If you want to see how everything is wired, here's a diagram: http://southshore.com/~jaj/avionics/NavworxWiring.pdf

[fastj22]

I noticed in the Skygaurd install guide, they reference the DB9 being able to communicate with the transponder and altitude encoder. But in the pin out section, all those pins are labeled "For Future Use". So hope springs eternal that someday they will have something more than sniffing the PA from the transponder. That is if they survive all this Navworx mishegas with the FAA.

[mike.smith]

I noticed in the Skygaurd install guide, they reference the DB9 being able to communicate with the transponder and altitude encoder. But in the pin out section, all those pins are labeled "For Future Use". So hope springs eternal that someday they will have something more than sniffing the PA from the transponder. That is if they survive all this Navworx mishegas with the FAA.

I have a list of questions out to the company. I'll post them when I get answers.

As for the antennas, I don't know why 2 are required for 978 and 2 for 1090 with the Skyguard. Other manufacturers are calling for a single post antenna for each frequency. From Freeflight Systems (for instance) installation manual: "For airworthiness approval of ADS-B out systems (AC 20-165A) single bottom mounted antenna (TSO-C154c Class A1S) installations are allowed." Two antennas (1 on top and one under the plane), appear to only be necessary in certain TSO installations for certified aircraft, that does not include experimentals. Same for NavWorx; only a single antenna needed for one frequency. I looked at the actual wording in TSO-C154c, and it appears only one antenna is required for our applications (A1S).

[fastj22]

I noticed in the Skygaurd install guide, they reference the DB9 being able to communicate with the transponder and altitude encoder. But in the pin out section, all those pins are labeled "For Future Use". So hope springs eternal that someday they will have something more than sniffing the PA from the transponder. That is if they survive all this Navworx mishegas with the FAA.

I have a list of questions out to the company. I'll post them when I get answers.

As for the antennas, I don't know why 2 are required for 978 and 2 for 1090 with the Skyguard. Other manufacturers are calling for a single post antenna for each frequency. From Freeflight Systems (for instance) installation manual: "For airworthiness approval of ADS-B out systems (AC 20-165A) single bottom mounted antenna (TSO-C154c Class A1S) installations are allowed." Two antennas (1 on top and one under the plane), appear to only be necessary in certain TSO installations for certified aircraft, that does not include experimentals. Same for NavWorx; only a single antenna needed for one frequency. I looked at the actual wording in TSO-C154c, and it appears only one antenna is required for our applications (A1S).

There is only one antenna for the 1090, the Skyguard TWX Pro is only 978 out, but dual band in. You could tie both 978 (in) and 1090 (in) to one external antenna with adapters and a tee, I did this with my Stratux and it worked. They provide individual whip antennas for the in's that attach to the box. The 978 out requires a dedicated UAT and can't share the transponder one as far as I know. You must provide the UAT. I use a dedicated 978 UAT on the belly for (in) to get the best signal from the ground stations.