Sonex value

[gcm52]

It is not uncommon to fail to recover your costs when selling your homebuilt. I had $45k into a Zenith 701 and sold it for $35k after two years of flying it. Part of the problem was using Quicken accounting software so I tracked every penny I had into the airplane, it adds up. If I sell the Onex I am building, I am pretty sure I will not recover my costs (although I am hoping I will fly it for a long time I got bored with the Zenith because it was so slow). The best way to buy a homebuilt is to find a meticulous repeat-offender builder who is done with his latest homebuilt and wants to sell it to start his next project. It is possible to buy for 75% of his costs, and his labor is free.

Values on certified airplanes are falling too. I spend a lot of time on the Beechtalk forum, and the guys complain about dropping Beechcraft values. The pilot population is getting smaller so less demand.

[MichaelFarley56]

The pilot population is getting smaller so less demand.

Bingo George! I think you just nailed it. (Along with everyone else whose posted as well)

Experimentals are a niche market in the grand scheme of things, and with over 500 Sonexes flying there will always be a few for sale. Same with Zeniths, RV's, etc.

It's basic supply/demand; larger supply and less demand, and prices will fall. Economics 101, unfortunately.

[Msing48]

I agree with Dale, Dana and Art. Almost 9 years of flying my plans-built Sonex behind an AeroVee and now almost 3 years flying it with a Jabiru 3300. Way too much fun to sell it. I suspect I'll being flying it until I cannot fly anymore. Resale value for me at this point is irrelevant.

[JT1974]

Other than Real Estate, I can't think of many other large ticket items that we purchase where we can expect anything but a loss in a resale situation. I lost 30% on my Harley, 50% on my RV Camper and I'm probably going to lose 40% when I sell my boat that I bought used for less than half of what it cost new. In my opinion, Experimental airplanes are like any other recreational vehicle. They are an "expense", not an "investment".

I also own a Quad City Challenger that I bought in nearly new condition with only 27 hours on it for $16,000. The guy that built it had $32,000 "invested" in the Challenger and I picked it up for half of what he had in it. I'm going to have probably $32,000 into my Onex when it's finished and it will probably be worth $25,000 on the used market. However, I'm going to learn a lot in the process of building it, I'll save a ton of money on annuals, maintenance and hangar fees and I get to cross off the "build and fly your own airplane" from my bucket list so for me it's worth it.

It's never fun to lose money, but if you're feeling bad about the resale value of your Sonex, just take a look at the guys who bought those $100K+ LSA's. That market is really taking a hit with the 3rd class medical reform.

[kevinh]

Hmm.

I built my RV7 from about 2002 to 2005. It cost about $60K for me to build (including paying a paint shop and a constant speed prop). I flew it till 2013 and sold it for $100K. As it turns out I was lucky because I was building at a time when there was more competition for lycoming clones. I was also lucky because RV prices were high at the time I happened to sell. Now RV engine prices have gone up a lot, so I'm not sure how true this still is.

I think Sonex mostly loses a lot of that upside because a) its envelope of missions is smaller (not as good cross country, slower) and b) the reputation the Aerovee had as 'fiddly'. I heard many friends repeat the saying "If you wanna fly, go RV. If you want to tinker go sonex." I there is some truth in this statement but not that much (i.e. I'm now building a Waiex because I wanted to try something different - I think of my Waiex as kinda a RV3+). But I knew before I started building the Waiex it wouldn't be worth anywhere near the resale of an RV.

But most of RV's resale value comes from folks who would otherwise buy a Cessna - except for less money they get a plane that goes faster, farther and can be upside down. Because the engine is a lycoming(ish) this vast pool of "I want a nice plane but don't want to build" end up looking at RVs.

Kevin

[vwglenn]

Don't think any of us are in it for the money. I've seen the values drop over the last few years. When I was in the market, a 3300 powered Sonex on the low end was listed around 35k and VWs were going for about 25k. It feel like they've gone down about 5k across the board. I think there are many factors driving the values though. A big part of that, in my opinion, is the anticipation of the medical reform. Now would be a good time to get a cheap Cherokee Six or something similar if you already have a place to keep it. There's going to be a market spike when guys can move back out of LSA and into family trucksters. Aircraft that can haul a decent load will go up and LSAs will go down a bit more.

[Fastcapy]

Some thoughts.

1. It is ugly. A lot of people find it really ugly. The taildragger looks a little better but the tri-gear seems to get all kinds of hate for its look. While it can grow on you it doesn't compare to the looks of other planes out there in the homebuilt world.

2. Fit and finish. Sonex just doesn't have the fit and finish of other planes. They are loud, leak air everywhere, and just don't have the fit and finish many come to expect and like you see in other planes, especially the RV world. The panel is really limited by the size, unless you start adding humps to it or mounting stuff on the glareshield etc. That reduces the aesthetics of the panel.

3. Waiex: Many people do not like the tail. Yes, it can be a conversation starter but a lot of people I talk to don't really care to fly with it. I think the situation in Florida with the tail departing. Also, people still think of the old adage about v tail Bonanzas.

4. It is limited. It is good at many things but not great at anything. I mean people are willing to spend more on a bush plane, or a heavy hauler, or a speedster, or a comfy X/C plane with nice IFR platform. Range isn't that great, payload is anemic, it isn't an all out speedster. Lets face it, the Sonex is more of a lets go take a fun flight or get a $100 hamburger type plane. I seem to think these types of planes just don't hold resale value as people look as it more as a fun toy than a dedicated machine. Just like 152 values have dropped so much.

5. Lack of a "certified" motor. A lot of people shy away from stuff if it is not a lycoming or continental. The Jabiru issues didn't help, Camit didn't help, the Aerovee is known as a tinkerers motor, which I can attest to. Then the issue with 2 factory planes going down because of powerplant issues doesn't help at all either.

6. Medical reform will not help the resale values of light sport aircraft either.

While I enjoy flying mine I know it is just a platform for fun flights. It is not my dream plane, nor do I expect it to be great at everything. However, I think that since it is in the big boys toys category that you will not see the values of what you put into it, just like other toys. My dirt bikes and quads were the same way. I sold them to pay for stuff for my Sonex and what I got for them was way below what I had into them.

I didn't build it to make a profit. I did it because I wanted to have a economical way to go and do some fun flights.

[rizzz]

Some thoughts.

1. It is ugly. A lot of people find it really ugly. The taildragger looks a little better but the tri-gear seems to get all kinds of hate for its look. While it can grow on you it doesn't compare to the looks of other planes out there in the homebuilt world.

I would never call my Sonex ugly, I love the streamlined Sonex look. However, I know quite a few pilots who hate it with a passion.
RV's have a more traditional airplane look which naturally draws a bigger crowd.
No doubt the non conventional look limits the market significantly but does it affect the resale value? Both the first and second hand market would be equally affected so you already have a smaller market to start with.

I am a bit surprised nobody has mentioned the B model yet in this thread though. It addresses a lot of the other concerns raised but more importantly, it's existence will devalue the legacy models more and more over time, especially in a few years when B models start hitting the second hand market.

[Corby202]

I'm with Michael on this one, I think they are a great looking plane (when finished properly), that's the main reason I built one. I enjoyed building it immensely, I also get great delight out of the fact the total cost was around 32K (AUD), I now have a plane that gets along at 120 knots at 15 litres/hr, aerobatic capable, is a delight to fly (probably not to many two seat planes with that performance on 80hp). I can take friends, family along for rides. I think its great value

[daleandee]

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