Tail wheel vs tri gear

[Mike53]

I hope to get a discussion going on the merits and detractions of both.I am going to build the Onex and I would like it to be a Tri gear.
My reasons for-tri gear
1-Very sellable as majority of pilots are trained in tri gear .
2-Very forgiving in gusty crosswind conditions.
3-Insurance will be a lot less right from the getgo (in Canada there is no tail wheel endorsement or rating but that doesn't mean the insurance co. will look any kindlier on you)
4-I personally like the look better
Against-tri gear
1-not good for repeated grass landings(you never know how smooth a strip is )
2-probably more maintenance issues ie: those grass strip landings
3-some people might ask you why you didn't go tail wheel because it looks better :o

I would like to hear from Sonex owners specifically tri gear owners and their thoughts and experiences on grass strips.
Does the nose gear have any shock absorption ? If not do you think a nose gear like the 701 http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/data ... ction1.pdf ie:single heavy duty bungee, would work on the Sonex/Onex?
Has anyone experimented with VG's http://stolspeed.com/ to lower the stall speed?
From the preceding it may look like I have already decided on the tri-gear but actually I am leaning more towards the tail wheel and its grass strip forgiveness
but if I can solve that issue in the tri gear ala a beefier nose gear I will certainly go Tri.
Hopefully we can get more members from Sonextalk to join this group and add their idea's
Mike

[MichaelFarley56]

Hi Mike,

I should start by saying that I have yet to fly my Waiex so take this for what it's worth...

If you have a few moments, stop in over at the Vans RV forums at www.vansairforce.net and if you search you'll find tons of information on this subject.

To make a long story short, however, the final word of the argument always goes back to "build which one you like!"

That being said, if you do go for the tri gear it doesn't sound like you're going any issues on grass fields. Just remember and practice the "soft field" procedures you learned in Private training (i.e., hold the stick all the way back during taxi) and you should be fine. The Aerovee really doesn't weigh all that much so there shouldn't be too much weight on the nosewheel, so I'm sure a tri-gear Onex will do just fine on grass.

Good luck getting started on your build!

[Andy Walker]

My Sonex is being built as a tri-gear as well. The main reason is that I'm a low time pilot, and there are going to be enough "new" things about flying this airplane for the first few hours, so I'm trying to keep the number of variables as low as possible. If down the road once I have more experience, I want to pick up a few mph and drop some weight, then I'll change out the gear to tailwheel.

Andy

[Mike53]

Hi Andy.Can you tell me if the sonex nose gear has any type of shock absorption,or is it rigidly attached to the motor mount/or firewall ?( I have no idea what it attaches to )just want to know if it is rigid or not.Heck even a 150 has an oleo.
Mike

[Mike53]

Hi Mike,

I should start by saying that I have yet to fly my Waiex so take this for what it's worth...

If you have a few moments, stop in over at the Vans RV forums at http://www.vansairforce.net and if you search you'll find tons of information on this subject.

To make a long story short, however, the final word of the argument always goes back to "build which one you like!"

That being said, if you do go for the tri gear it doesn't sound like you're going any issues on grass fields. Just remember and practice the "soft field" procedures you learned in Private training (i.e., hold the stick all the way back during taxi) and you should be fine. The Aerovee really doesn't weigh all that much so there shouldn't be too much weight on the nosewheel, so I'm sure a tri-gear Onex will do just fine on grass.

Good luck getting started on your build!

Hey you weren't kidding about Van's ,I just checked it out and after reading about 5 pages of posts the only thing the tri and tail folks could agree upon was that .....well not a whole lot.There was a couple tri gear pilots that said they stayed away from grass strips .
My big concern is if I'm right about sonex products having rigid nose gear,then even being as careful as you can ie:keep the nose wheel off as long as possible: there will still be to much wear if you frequent grass strip a lot.If you only visit a grass strip a couple times a year ,no problem.There are a lot of grass strips in my area private and municipal.
Piper and Cessna both used shock absorption nose gear on there single engine planes and I think with good reason,and as I already mentioned Zenith 701's and 750's both use a bungee,so I'm hoping it's doable with the Onex.

[chris]

A lot of the a model RV guys were concerned about the design of the nose gear after several failures. Heres an example thread.

Have any Sonex nose gears failed? (not including unexpected off field landings)

[Mike53]

Good question,and after some searching the only thing I came up with was http://www.pbase.com/sonex293/mount_failure this engine mount failure.Bonus was the pic's that showed a spring type shock absorber ,so that answers one of my concerns at least for the sonex and I will assume the Onex will copy this.The Van's with a nose gear seem to be good pole vaulters.
Not a good idea.
Mike

[Andy Walker]

Hi Andy.Can you tell me if the sonex nose gear has any type of shock absorption,or is it rigidly attached to the motor mount/or firewall ?( I have no idea what it attaches to )just want to know if it is rigid or not.Heck even a 150 has an oleo.
Mike

Hey Mike. There is a very heavy gauge spring that fits around the nose strut and against the engine mount, providing shock absorption. I think it will work great for paved runway, and will probably be fine on grass and dirt airstrips provided you use proper soft field technique and try to move slowly when possible and hold the nose off where appropriate. If you've got 3" rocks or deep gopher holes in your field the nose gear (and maybe engine mount!) will probably not last long... :shock:

One thing that surprised me is that the nose gear is *not* titanium rod like the mains. It's a thick steel tube with the wheel fork welded on. Probably not a big deal, but I was under the impression that all the Sonex gear was titanium.

[Andy Walker]

A lot of the a model RV guys were concerned about the design of the nose gear after several failures. Heres an example thread.

Have any Sonex nose gears failed? (not including unexpected off field landings)

I don't think there have been gear failures per se, but before they thickened the engine mount lower tubes there were some broken and bent engine mounts. That change was in 2005 IIRC, and I don't know of any failures in mounts made after that date. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong on that.

[fdkirkland]

I can't speak for a Sonex/Waiex yet but with around a thousand hours total time and six hundred of those in tail wheel planes, I can say do not be afraid of a tail wheel plane. It is just like any other skill, practice is the key. Of course whether or not you chose a nose wheel or tail dragger really ought to be part of the thought process for how you are predominately going to use the airplane. If you are intending to make the grass strips frequently, forget the nose wheel but if you are mainly going to be TO&Ls on paved runways with occasional grass strips, the nose wheel might be just what you need. On the other hand, if you really want to know what it is like to fly a plane by the seat of your pants, the tail dragger is the way to go. On the ground you litterally feel the plane with your whole body and respond to it as though you are wearing the plane. With a tri-gear you just grip it and rip it. There is a distinct joy to flying a tail dragger over that of the tri-gear in my humble opinion.