Upcoming tailpost installation

[Area 51%]

I've got the extruded hinge with the kit. The Wicks hardware package has about 1.5 miles of the open loop kind though.

If it were easy, everyone would build and fly their own airplane. As long as I know it's "possible" to get at the nuts. I guess it must be if the doubler can be installed after the build.

The only place I've seen mention of bending the skins is in the SB, and that seems to be so the doubler (shouldn't it be called a trippler) can be slid into place . My plans nor the angle of the channel bends indicate anything other than a straight line from front to back. Can you give me a page #. Seems like a logical way to do it though. Maybe it's incorporated on the Bs.

Has anyone had an interferance problem with the flanged hole on the shear web. Mine contacts the angle and gets pushed up. Looks like it should be about 1/4" further to the rear. I tried to flatten it a bit ,but only managed to make more work for myself. I plan to fabricate a replacement with the hole relocated.

One last thing. Does anyone know the reason the plans call out non-stainless rivets for the inspection cover nut-plates. My plane is going to be ugly enough without rust stains running down the belly.

Thanks for the info. Relieved but still sedated from Area 51%.

[Area 51%]

The tail-post channel has been permanently riveted to the fuselage sides ala the "Fritz method". What a nice, clean installation the AD rivets make. Easily worth the cost of the squeezer and dies. There is "just" enough room to slide the doubler/trippler in place without bending anything. I didn't put the hinge side rivets in with the factory head to the inside like Fritz. Not sure why he did. The squeezer hammer die needs to come very close to the hinge, but the rivet shop head reaches proper size before contact with it.

Another tailpost installation advantage I'm enjoying, is the "botched" flanged hole in the factory shear web. I made a replacement with the hole a little farther aft to miss the forward angle. When I drilled out the 3 rivets that attach it to the aft angle and slid it out of place, it allowed access to the rear former, and better access to the tailpost bolts. I can now install the last former, tailspring mount, shear web, and tailpost independent of each other. I do have to remember to put the web back in before the #5 turtledeck former gets riveted though.

[kevinh]

I built my last plane with AD rivets and love them, but aren't they weaker than the monel pulled rivets? Is it okay to use AD rivets here because there is enough margin or is there something different about the installation?

edit: oops never mind - found original thread here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2527

[kevinh]

Okay. So I'm about to rivet the bottom canoe (WIX-F22) and it seems to me I can make the installation of the tailpost MUCH easier by installing WIX-F22-03 (and the aft shear web that sits above it) after riveting the aft channel and then bolting in the tailpost. Does anyone see a problem with this? I just did a test with my clecoed fuse and I can slide in F22-03 easily with everything else clecoed in position. It seems then that tightening the bolts for the tailpost would be easy-cheezy. But there must be some reason people don't do this?

Any thoughts on this scheme?

[Bryan Cotton]

Kevin,

I don't have the plans in front of me so I am drawing a blank on the part numbers. Here was my sequence:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=578&start=150

I also looked at Ryan's home page a bunch.

[peter anson]

A friend building a Xenos used AD rivets on the tail-post and it worked beautifully. Didn't need to bend the skin at all and was able to put the domed head on the outside. There was adequate clearance for the extra doubler.

I built my last plane with AD rivets and love them, but aren't they weaker than the monel pulled rivets?

Years ago, when I started building my Sonex, I made up a bunch of little test strips and riveted them together with a variety of rivets - various material pulled rivets as well as 1/8 and 3/32 AD rivets, and had a guy at work pull them apart with a small test machine. The AD4 rivet made easily the strongest joint, at least 30% stronger than the best of the pulled rivets. All the pulled rivet joints failed at around the same load and all failed by the tail of the rivet pulling through the 6061 sheet. The AD rivet joints failed by the 6061 sheet tearing, and even the AD3 rivet was about on a par with the 1/8" pulled rivets. In practice, as long as the rivet is strong enough, the joints will fail by tearing of the 6061 sheet, so you won't make the joint any stronger by having stronger rivets. This might not be the case with 0.032" material, but was the case for the 0.025" material that I tested.

Peter

[kevinh]

Super great replies Peter and Bryan. Thanks - I'll post an update once I have picts (for future searchers).

[kevinh]

Ok. Thanks for your help all. It seems to go pretty well. One problem:

It seems like some of the rivet heads on the rudder hit the left tailpost boltheads before the rudder reaches the right stop. I can push the rudder to the stop but that is clearly slightly bending the rudder spar each time. The heads reach the rivet heads at about 22 deg right, but the plans say I should be 25 deg to the stop. I suspect my hinge eyelets are a bit too centered on skin, and really I should have mounted the hinge about 1/32" further aft. Any thoughts on this? Have others encountered it?



Ideas that occur to me:
* drill out the 4 rivets (ouch - with no access to the back) and replace with countersunk head rivets.

* Somehow get a socket on those four interfering bolts and then remove the washers from under the heads of those bolts (moving the washer to the fore)

ugh.

[Area 51%]

I like the bolt idea better than the rivet option. A thin/light washer should do the trick.

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi kevin,
Yep thats a common problem. We and many others just drilled out the ccp rivets , countersink, and pop in some flush countersunk rivets. Really not much time to accomplish. All the shavings rivet stub etc can fall out bottom aft of rudder. There was a post about this a few years ago.

WaiexN143NM
Michael