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Discussion of the Aerovee kit engine.

Re: Oil Leaks

Postby lgsievila » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:33 am

Let's say your torque wrench is 12 inches long from the center of the square drive to the center of the handle.

Been around a long time but have never seen a torque wrench that looks anything like that. Doesn't seem like something with those dimensions would be very easy to work with. Obviously a typo but Mr Norris never answered my question off line-"What is wrong with using silk thread on case halves?" Easy answer to say it isn't in the manual. There are numerous things that aren't in the manual that should be. Just one example is that there is no mention of how to properly install circlips on wrist pins. If you looked at the package the replacement clips came in there is a little instruction sheet saying that if you don' put the sharp edge outward, the clips can work themselves out. After having several instances of that happening, one could reasonably think that a note to the manual could be added to that effect. And if orientation of circlips wasn't spelled in the manual to begin with(which it wasn't), how many people were there that didn't know there was a right way to install them got it wrong? Fifty/fifty chance on 8 clips-not good odds when you are talking about aircraft engines.

I never once said it was Sonex's fault I got a bad case-I only pointed out my problems to help others look closely at certain things I encountered. The lack of quality control lies with the foundry and shop that did the machining. I never once said the flawed crankshaft I got was Sonex's fault-I sent an email to Kerry to tell him what I found and he said and I quote, "good catch". I tried to share what I found to help others but only found that Sonex does not accept constructive criticism of any sort.

Fact is I never had a case leak in that location until I removed the bolt that holds the brace for the intake. I have attached a link to a video I posted 3 years ago that demonstrates just a little of the care I took assembling my AeroVee. There are many other youtube videos that I posted to demonstrate how I did some things during my build-not saying they were right but they worked for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVdycOvy84g

Loren Sievila
Onex 33
In the process of removing AeroVee and installing 2200CC Camit.
Loren Sievila
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Re: Oil Leaks

Postby gammaxy » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:09 pm

I think he's just describing a torque wrench with a 12" long handle, but it might have sounded a little awkward since for the purpose of the calculation it's helpful to know exactly what measurements to use.

The silk thread seems like something with no satisfying answer. People seem to build engines with and without it in engines that traditionally are built either way. It's an interesting data point that you used it and ended up with a leak and others haven't. But I'm sure plenty of people didn't use it and ended up with leaks. I haven't noticed any leak at that bolt, but have only removed it twice. I'll probably pay more attention to that area in the future. I imagine diagnosing a leak at that bolt is tricky, since oil can end up there from a lot of other potential leak points on the back and bottom of the engine.

I don't think Sonex agrees that the problem with the Nikasil circlips was due to installation direction, but rather them being too small. Frankly, if it is true that a slightly rounded edge on a circlip is all that it takes for it to work out of the groove, I wouldn't want to use them anyway. I'd love to see someone who has conclusive evidence that it actually matters. That being said, had I received those circlips and saw those instructions, I would install them as you describe, but wouldn't feel like I was playing engine roulette if I forgot--certainly not 50/50 per clip.

One detail that I feel like is missing from the manual is how long to stretch the pushrod tubes. I use the book they recommend, "How To Rebuild Your Aircooled Volkswagen Engine" for this number and probably a handful of other details (plus I've read it cover to cover a couple times before I worked on my engine). I've never had a leaky tube and have had them on and off several times, but I always use the length specified in the book. I wonder if the length should be adjusted for things like compression ratio?
Chris Madsen
Aerovee Sonex N256CM
Flying since September 2014
Build log: http://chrismadsen.org
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Re: Oil Leaks

Postby Onex107 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:57 am

Maybe the problem is the silk thread?
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Re: Oil Leaks

Postby SonexEZ » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:40 pm

Dose anyone know where i could get the oil pump gasket , i dont see it on sonex and i dont want to wait 10 days to get it , has anyone match it to a VW or porsche engine and got it a auto parts store ,
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Re: Oil Leaks

Postby kmacht » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:38 pm

Not sure about local but socalautoparts has it for 89 cents with free shipping. Item # 111115111B. Probably won't be any quicker than sonex though. One thing to keep in mind is that there are actually two gaskets. The one above goes between the pump and the case. There is another one that looks similar but thicker that goes between the pump and the pump cover. Sonex doesn't use that one and instead uses form a gasket sealant in its place.

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Re: Oil Leaks

Postby Klimek » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:57 am

sonexEZ,
There are 2 gaskets. one, pump to case (block) this the THICKER of the two. The second is between the pump body and the cover. This is the thinner of the 2 and
has 4 holes around the perimeter, one between each mounting hole area. It is important the gaskets do not get mixed. The small holes are used to return oil from the high pressure side of the pump to the low side via the small groove in the face of the pump instead of allowing it so leak out between the cover and body. Secondly the reason it is thin is to keep oil pump gear end play to a minimum. Excessive end play reduces the oil pressure produced by the pump. Lastly be very sparing on the use of sealer on the outer gasket/pump body/cover. Coat the perimeter of the housing only. Do not apply sealer in the area between the groove and the gear cavities. This groove is used to transfer oil back to the low side pressure side of the pump. Use sealer on the pump to case gasket as needed, just don't get too sloppy.
Lastly the gaskets are available through any VW parts supplier, EMPI, Bug Pack, etc. Buy good quality, German if you can. Sonex is the best place to buy. They support you, you support them. It's a good deal for everyone concerned.
Frank
ONEX 090
67 hours
Back home Installing SONEX hyd. disc brakes
Prepping for paint
Making small ergonomic changes in cockpit found to be needed after 67 hours of flying / tuning / having fun
Replacing the windshield (changing snap vents modifying fuel cap access)
Spring has Sprung! Get out and FLY!
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Re: oil leaks

Postby SonexEZ » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:58 pm

I need some help here i replaced the oil pump due to not being able to stop a oil leak at the pump , now that i have more oil presure i have a leak at the prop hub , , i could put the front oil cover gasket in to try and reduce the presure , manual says not to use a gasket only gasket sealer , if i have to pull this engine out to fix the hub leak i give up on this aerovee engine
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Re: Oil Leaks

Postby gammaxy » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:17 pm

How big of a leak is it? It's not a perfect seal, but I don't think I'd be surprised to see some dampness even though mine has always been dry. My understanding is it can leak if you have too much oil, but my intuition is it would have to be ridiculously overfilled. Is your case breather working correctly? I can't remember how far you disassembled your engine. Did you happen to notice if the oil slinger is installed correctly on the crankshaft?

How much more oil pressure do you have now? I doubt your problem is caused by extra pressure from the pump. Maybe if an oil passage got blocked or something...
Chris Madsen
Aerovee Sonex N256CM
Flying since September 2014
Build log: http://chrismadsen.org
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Re: oil leaks

Postby Sonex1517 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:42 pm

SonexEZ wrote:I need some help here i replaced the oil pump due to not being able to stop a oil leak at the pump , now that i have more oil presure i have a leak at the prop hub , , i could put the front oil cover gasket in to try and reduce the presure , manual says not to use a gasket only gasket sealer , if i have to pull this engine out to fix the hub leak i give up on this aerovee engine


This has been covered on the forum previously - one idea:

http://sonexbuilders.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1104&hilit=prop+hub&start=110

Doug Raby also posted information about this - I will see if I can find the article
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Re: oil leaks

Postby Klimek » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:55 am

I do not think changing the pump caused the leak at the hub, if replacement was done correctly.
Oil pressure created by the pump is pressurizing the oil galleys, rod, main and cam bearing, etc. It does not pressurize the
crankcase.
I suspect the leak is caused by the vent system not flowing properly. I have been into a ton of VW engines that were worn out with excessive blow by
and had very little if any leak at the crank / hub / pulley end.
Properly set up (bearing and hub, oil slinger) there is very little chance there will be a leak there. It is a very simple set up that works well.
Check the vent system and for excessive blow by. (Rings, pistons, cylinders, etc.)
Don't give up on the AeroVee...Mine works great.
Frank
ONEX090
installing hydraulic brakes
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