CASA in AU Senate re Jabiru engines

[ihab]

My take on this is that CASA, the Australian's FAA equivalent, has done Jabiru a disservice. CASA has consistently beat up on Jabiru for a small range of years of their engine with the early hydraulic lifters and smaller thru bolts, and not looked at the improved longetivity and reliability of the improved Jabiru engines.

I think that CASA have been justified in taking the action they have, on my airfield alone there have been an number of engine failures resulting in forced landings etc. Jabiru for their part have tried very hard to avoid any responsibility for the issues experienced. In fact they seem to have in my opinion relished the extra money they have made replacing the faulty / damaged parts required to repair the issues. All the while blaming the owners for their inability to maintain their engines adequately.

My viewpoint is completely untainted by the actual information, but it seems to me that both these statements could be consistent with the facts. :) Like maybe if Jabiru did not retrofit as eagerly as CASA wanted or even as much as they should have, perhaps because they were afraid to "admit" fault, and CASA responded with restrictions that were in part punitive, etc. With a bunch of all-too-human complications thrown in.

But moving forward, it seems that there are 3 things that CASA highlighted: thru bolts; hydraulic lifters; and sticky valves. That's useful information to know, I guess....

Ihab

[aferddaberts]

Jake,

Thanks for the comeback. I suspected the same as you regarding CASA's motive (politics in AU too) but where ther's smoke there's fire. Anyway, the Viking's are about half the price of the Jabiru. I have a ways to go before I need to buy my engine, so will keep researching that subject.
Thanks again
AL Roberts

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi all,
Ihab , yep I think you nailed it. Good insight. Al, good to see you are going forward with the build. Any questions on the Viking engine talk to Don Bowen(waiex49) , good guy with recent knowledge of the Viking engine. Just had first engine start. I see Viking advertising 2 models now ,130. & 170 HP. New Honda Fit model engine with factory turbo. 170HP in a sonex , wow!! (Don't know if structurally possible, if it would be safe) Buyer beware , as always in the experimental field. Cheers!

WaiexN143NM
Michael Radtke

[Waiex 49]

FYI:

The current production Viking 130 is based on the new (2015 and on) 130 hp DGI (direct gas injection) Honda Fit engine. The 130hp core engine is supposed to be a bit lighter than the 110 hp core engine.

The proposed Viking 170 is based on the new 170 hp turbocharged Honda Civic engine. This is a Honda designed turbocharged engine, not an aftermarket effort.

Just passing on what info I have. I'm not a representative of Viking.

[Jgibson]

First time posting but long time lurking and always a fan of the Sonex.
I have a question concerning the Viking (Honda) engine from the fellow in Florida previously associated with the Suburu.
From an EXTREMELY reliable (close) source, I've been told that Honda will not sell new engines to this builder for aircraft use. Does anyone know where these engines are coming from? Built up from parts? Out of wrecks? Bought across the parts counter as auto replacement engines?
Just curious and I have no affiliation with any engine builder/seller. I've always wanted to build a Sonex and have decided that the Corvair is the way to go for me unless a Rotax firewall forward package is supported and accepted by the company (even though they don't accept the Corvair).
Those building: keep up the good work. I enjoy the postings and solutions to issues.

[rizzz]

First time posting but long time lurking and always a fan of the Sonex.
I have a question concerning the Viking (Honda) engine from the fellow in Florida previously associated with the Suburu.
From an EXTREMELY reliable (close) source, I've been told that Honda will not sell new engines to this builder for aircraft use. Does anyone know where these engines are coming from? Built up from parts? Out of wrecks? Bought across the parts counter as auto replacement engines?
Just curious and I have no affiliation with any engine builder/seller. I've always wanted to build a Sonex and have decided that the Corvair is the way to go for me unless a Rotax firewall forward package is supported and accepted by the company (even though they don't accept the Corvair).
Those building: keep up the good work. I enjoy the postings and solutions to issues.

This might help:
http://vikingaircraftengines.ning.com/v ... da-engines

[fastj22]

Think Pulp Fiction.
"Sorry baby, but I had to crash that Honda."

[rizzz]

Think Pulp Fiction.
"Sorry baby, but I had to crash that Honda."

:lol:

[Jgibson]

The 'block' issue I understand, however exactly what is new, refurbished, re-used, inspected from the original salvage yard engine? I like the engine and concept, BUT: nowhere in their glitzy sales brochures (that I can find at least and from information I tried to glean at Oshkosh) are any other parts mentioned. Correct, in that a 'fender bender' engine would probably be a great candidate for a build up.
But an engine involved in a rollover or other occurance that starves the cranks and bearings before the fuel pump rollover cutout happens would not. So the question again is: are they being rebuilt? Which parts are re-used or replaced? And one more important question: who and which machine shop is actually doing the work?
We're all aware of Honda quality in everything they build. And we're all aware of Suburu's same quality of original build. AND I think we're all aware of how that build quality translated to aircraft use when promoted and sold by the same vendor.
I've spoken with a builder who has used two of these: one in a Zenith 750 and the other in his Zenith 650 and he absolutely loves them both. But even he couldn't trace the parts used in the build or the actual hands-on builder.
As I said before: I have absolutely no stake in either the success or failure of the engine and love the concept of a quality, cheaper, robust automotive engine that can be successfully converted for aircraft use. But I certainly want to be able to evaluate the experience of the actual builder (rather than the salesman) and know exactly what new parts are being used in those rebuilds.

[rizzz]

The 'block' issue I understand, however exactly what is new, refurbished, re-used, inspected from the original salvage yard engine? I like the engine and concept, BUT: nowhere in their glitzy sales brochures (that I can find at least and from information I tried to glean at Oshkosh) are any other parts mentioned. Correct, in that a 'fender bender' engine would probably be a great candidate for a build up.
But an engine involved in a rollover or other occurance that starves the cranks and bearings before the fuel pump rollover cutout happens would not. So the question again is: are they being rebuilt? Which parts are re-used or replaced? And one more important question: who and which machine shop is actually doing the work?
We're all aware of Honda quality in everything they build. And we're all aware of Suburu's same quality of original build. AND I think we're all aware of how that build quality translated to aircraft use when promoted and sold by the same vendor.
I've spoken with a builder who has used two of these: one in a Zenith 750 and the other in his Zenith 650 and he absolutely loves them both. But even he couldn't trace the parts used in the build or the actual hands-on builder.
As I said before: I have absolutely no stake in either the success or failure of the engine and love the concept of a quality, cheaper, robust automotive engine that can be successfully converted for aircraft use. But I certainly want to be able to evaluate the experience of the actual builder (rather than the salesman) and know exactly what new parts are being used in those rebuilds.

You will find that all of these questions have been asked before, there was a very active thread on this forum about the Viking engine a few years ago that questioned all of these issues (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=63&hilit=viking) and the same has happened on various other forums, however you will find little answers to your questions.

I was a big skeptic of the Viking engine myself, mainly because of Jan's history, however, Viking has been around for quite some time now and some of the engines out there have significant time on them, very little issues have presented themselves so far. I believe Jan has proven a lot of us wrong, including myself, and I think he has a competitive reliable product now.
The main issue with Viking early on it seemed was similar to what was happening with his previous Subaru project, engines were not delivered on time, sometimes up to a year late, parts were missing to be delivered later etc. All of this was a repeat of what was happening before with the Subaru conversions,
That seems to have been resolved now unless he has gotten better at silencing customers but I don't believe that's the case, there are too many Viking success stories coming out now.

From what I can see on the forums etc., I still don't like the way Jan deals with (potential) customers sometimes and certainly not with critics. I don't think he's a very good business man from that respect and in my opinion he would do good getting a professional to do the PR stuff for him so he can run the company from the background and do the technical stuff which is what he seems to be good at.

Anyway, it is good to see he's being more and more successful. Even if you'd never buy a Viking yourself, just having it out there at the price it's at will eventually drive the others to re-think their pricing as they will have to come to terms with the fact that they just can't beat him purely on technical/reliability/historical arguments anymore.