EarthX Batteries

[mike.smith]

Ryan,

I was on the Earth X site and it makes reference to the EXT680 fitting into battery boxes that previously held PC680 battery. I reread the reference to 4 sided battery boxes and now believe it will work if I'm reading the information correctly.
I'm still uncertain as to the operating temperatures listed in the specs. Seems the operating range is too low to be under cowl? More investigation necessary.

Larry

They claim the Odyssey batteries are good for up to 45 deg C (in their comparison charts), and the EarthX up to 60 deg C, so according to them if our Odysseys work under our cowls, then the EarthX should.

[DCASonex]

Ken, Larry,

Also looking at the new battery to pair with my CAE 3300 and new 15 amp alternator when that is available and tested so very interested to follow how you make out with yours. Larry, if your Waiex is tail heavy, and battery is mounted forward of firewall, cannot see where reducing weight there will help balance. On my TD balance tends toward nose heavy, so win-win there on mine. Seriously considering the 900 series which looks like same case size, to have same amp hour rating as the PC680 to help keep instruments going in event of alternator failure.

David A.

[LarryEWaiex121]

David,

Not having the new Camit in hand yet, I've not had an opportunity see the actual difference in weight. I'm guessing between 10-12 lbs.? If that is true, then the weight savings on the battery would be very beneficial for replacing useful load.
The engine weight being further forward would be an overall benefit for me.
Engine should get shipped this next week.

Larry

[planeolbob]

Hi Everyone,
As is usual I bought a new battery a month ago. Would anyone be interested in it so I could go with the new model?
Bob (timing is everything) Mika

[mike.smith]

A timely MP3 post this week:
http://www.avweb.com/podcast/Podcast-Li ... 566-1.html

[Ercoupechris]

Seems like a much better value with similar weights and capacities for pennies on the dollar... Tell me where I'm wrong? I know its Lithium Iron which is different but I would like to know some opinions

https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/ ... batteries/

Chris

[gammaxy]

Seems like a much better value with similar weights and capacities for pennies on the dollar... Tell me where I'm wrong? I know its Lithium Iron which is different but I would like to know some opinions

Actually, the EarthX batteries are also Lithium Iron batteries.

I think the main price difference is due to:

4. Designed and engineered with a completely redundant battery management system (BMS) to protect your battery from over discharge, over charge, built in cell balancing, short circuit protection, and excessive cranking protection in addition to the integrated cell balancing technology. We are the only manufacturer that has this amount of protection.

The integrated over discharge protection is a really big deal, since some previous batteries could be ruined if you forgot to completely shut down the airplane. Guys on this forum have had to buy a second LiFePO4 battery due to this problem.

Cell balancing is also a big deal and some previous batteries required connection to an external charger occasionally to rebalance the cells.

Over charge and short circuit protection are also fantastic features and hopefully reduces the likelihood of battery damage or the already low likelihood of LiFePO4 battery fires.

I estimate this feature alone adds ~$100 to the cost of the battery. You'll notice that quality chargers for lithium batteries tend to cost about this much. The rest of the price difference is probably due to convenience.

It's still more than I want to pay, but it does seem like a quality product and the protection features are better than what's currently on my airplane (I have no overvoltage protection, etc.).

[Ercoupechris]

Not sure about over charge protection but it appears that the one I mentioned has "Cells are internally balanced-no special charger necessary" Thanks for the feedback

[GordonTurner]

I bought a couple of the Shorai batteries last year to use on the troller motor of my rowboat. I really liked the small size, and did not have any smoke come out despite relatively hard use. I found that they gave good power until pretty much the end, then died hard. And the end came soon. They don't really have a lot of energy stored. Once that happened, the Shorai charger wouldnt touch them. By using an old car battery charger on a very small flow, 2 amps?, Inwas able to coax them back to life several times. Eventually not at all.

I have changed back to a small lead acid m/c battery. It weighs a lot more, case is a little bigger, but reliably putts along slowly slowing down. Stick it on the charger and of course it just charges right up.

The Shorai batteries I purchased just as a test and to see in a relatively safe environment how I liked them. Despite killing them due to using them as deep cycle when they are intended for starting I liked them. Despite abuse neither one ever did anything dangerous and they in fact seemed somewhat more robust than I had been led to expect from internet reading.

But, as you have read, two things. Deep cycle will kill them (Earth-X circuitry protects their batteries from this), and in the deep cycle mode (powering stuff after the alternator fails) you don't get very much.

Kind of rambling, just my not unexpected observations. I plan to use two small LiFePo batteries in my electric dependent corvair powered waiex, and I'm considering whether the Earth-X provides safety that is worth the cost.

Gordon

[NWade]

But, as you have read, two things. Deep cycle will kill them (Earth-X circuitry protects their batteries from this), and in the deep cycle mode (powering stuff after the alternator fails) you don't get very much.

Just a note on the "you don't get very much" sentiment:

As a glider pilot, we are starting to see a lot of Lithium battery use (as we never have an alternator to provide power). One of the important things about Lithium cells is that their voltage curve is extremely different from Lead-Acid cells. If you know what to expect, its great. If you don't, however, it can be an ugly surprise!

Older battery chemistry tends to follow a slow fall-off in voltage as the battery discharges: You're really running out of Amp-hours, but it manifests via a change in output voltage as well. This has trained generations of people to look at their voltage and use that to gauge how "empty" their battery is. You do get a very early warning when your battery is running down, but you also start to lose things like radio transmission-power because of this voltage-dip (long before the battery is truly out of juice). Sensitive electronics may stop working if they expect a specific voltage and are being given less, and circuit breakers add their own voltage-drop - exacerbating the problem.

By contrast, Lithium batteries have an extremely flat voltage delivery until just before they run out of juice. This is great if you want to ensure that all of your electronics & radios are working at full force for as long as possible. But it does also mean that the end can come more-suddenly (5-30 minutes after a voltage dip) than you might be used-to if you only check your voltage once every few hours with a Lead-Acid battery.

So its important to have the right expectations in mind when you use a battery and check its voltage. You need to properly size the battery and understand what amperage your avionics draw, so that you can accurately determine how long your equipment will work if you lose your alternator.

--Noel
Sonex #1339 (Wings &Tail complete, Fuselage underway)
ASG-29 (sailplane)