Safety Concerns

[UtahClem]

I appreciate everyones responses. I should have said, I myself don't have any doubts about the toughness of the airframe, just didn't want to rule that out if somebody else had a different perspective. In reading the NTSB reports I have come to the same conclusions as the rest of you...most accidents have been caused by fuel exhaustion, LOC, and unexplained engine failure. The first one I feel like I can mitigate by making sure to have a healthy reserve, etc. The second, like everyone has said, get as much transition training as possible. It's the undetermined engine failures that bother me the most, especially since I'm pretty green when it comes to the firewall forward stuff. I have to admit, it has me wondering if the AeroVee/AeroInjector would really be the right engine choice for me. With a home airport at 4500', I would love to use the AeroVee turbo; I'm just not sure I am comfortable with the safety record yet.

Again, I appreciate everyones input and for welcoming me back. I'll continue to look through the older posts related to this subject so we don't have to rehash stuff that has already been said multiple times.

Thanks.

[DCASonex]

Also agree the Sonex is a tank, but I do see one area for significant crash survival improvement. I and I am sure others cannot reach the flap and brake handles with shoulder belts tight, and have seen to many photos of cashes that looked like pilot should have walked away from but did not. Strong fuselage is no help if one is tossed about in it, particularly if head can hit panel.

Now that hydraulic brakes are available from Sonex, no reason not to put control within reach. I made toe pedal brake operators, but have flow plane with brakes on control stick that also worked well.

For flaps I took the simple route and installed an electrical linear actuator Advantage is that control switch is right next to throttle so one hand stays on stick other on throttle; however, suspect it should not be that difficult to find a way to put direct mechanical operation within reach of all operators.

Another no-brainer addition is a panel mounted push pull cable to the fuel shutoff valve. This gives visual indication of the valve's position, and allows quick shut off in event of emergency off field landing.

Taken together, belts can be tight from takeoff roll to full stop.

David A.

[LarryEWaiex121]

David,

You have made some very valid points when it comes to control layout.
No one can argue with the KISS principle that Sonex, the company has embraced since the very beginning. One can though, make some observations like you have in this instance that tells another story. A more complete story.
I'm a tall guy at 6'3". I fit amazingly well in my Waiex. I think after 4 yrs of flying accumulating 457hrs, I feel qualified to say there is room for improvement in the control matter.
I'm used to practicing emergency out situations. Having flown gliders for 10 yrs, every flight in an emergency. LOL Every flight your anticipating something going wrong and planning your escape. Every flight is dead stick, so, you get into the mindset of always looking. Where would I go?
For me one of my biggest concerns is this. I can not reach my fuel shutoff valve in the stock location without loosening my seatbelts. I can do both fairly quick, but? Its not the ideal layout in forcing one to do more procedures in a critical time.
I'm going to look at my arraignment and see if maybe I can improve on the situation and get to a panel mounted shut off. Whether cable operated, rod, whatever.
As for brakes, I'm in the process of installing the hydraulic brakes(been on shelf for two yrs) and plan the stock install. Clearly there are moments I wished I had differential braking in crosswinds. If a guy had differential brakes with the toes, one could land with small amounts of POWER that would improve the control effectiveness and increase crosswind control.
Twice in crosswinds of over 20kts I've had that lovely off runway excursion do to lack of available control resources. Its quite uncomfortable feeling an impending slow motion crash. Through skill and cunning (or luck) I worked out both situations with no battle scars on the plane or me. No bent parts or knocked over runway lights. Whew!
Both situations occurred far out of town and made me sweat not that actual event but the after fallout of maybe having dinged a prop or rolling a tire off the bead. Better planning could have averted both in all likelihood?
Having to remove your hand from the throttle to manipulate the brakes is less than ideal. Even a stick mounted brake makes more sense than the hand brake. At least for a conventional geared plane. The ability to use power and brakes together can make for a better day on a taildragger. I'm seriously going to look at the stick mounted option.
Unfortunately, most engine failures can be traced straight back to the fuel system install. That part just has to work. No if, ands or buts.

Larry
Waiex 121YX

[mike.smith]

David,

For me one of my biggest concerns is this. I can not reach my fuel shutoff valve in the stock location without loosening my seatbelts. I can do both fairly quick, but? Its not the ideal layout in forcing one to do more procedures in a critical time.
I'm going to look at my arraignment and see if maybe I can improve on the situation and get to a panel mounted shut off. Whether cable operated, rod, whatever.

I am also of the opinion that the stock shutoff is not the best condition, so I installed a pushrod. I made an offset on the ball valve and then put a rod-end bearing on the end of a hollow aluminum tube, with a handle at one end. When the rod is pulled all the way out, the fuel is off. A huge visual indicator when you are in or out of the plane. I adjusted the throw so that when the rod is all the way in, the valve is fully open (all the way in for "open" so it's not in the way during flight). Because I threaded the end of the rod, I can do two things: 1) quickly remove the rod so I can remove the removable center section of my panel, and 2) adjust the throw on the rod to make sure the valve is fully open when the rod is all the way in. Here are some of my Kitlog pages:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 968&row=18
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 979&row=13
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 458&row=17

Removable center panel (held with 4 piano hinge sections):
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 561&row=73
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 244&row=60
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 7932&row=1

[fastj22]

I agree that having all critical controls within reach while fully strapped in is best.
Over the 200+ hours I've put on my plane,
I installed electric flaps which are operated by a momentary switch on the panel. The stock flaps handle works fine, but it requires a significant pull and just didn't seem natural.
Toe brakes. Can't imagine landing with a hand brake. Its just natural to use your toes to brake.
A fuel cut off like Mike did. Originally had to loosen the shoulder straps to reach the valve. Like this much better.
Trim is electric and controlled on a high hat on the stick. Had the Dial A Trim and found it unnatural.
When I'm landing, my left hand is on the throttle, my toes ready to brake, my right hand on the stick with my thumb adjusting trim. I do have to release the throttle to flip the flaps switch.

[rizzz]

These are all modifications I will seriously consider once my phase 1 testing is over (10.5 hours to go as of this morning).
Starting with the toe brakes using John's pedals (thanks again John :))

[Sonex1517]

So many good points. Very little to add, but here I go.

When we started the Sonex Builders and Pilots a Foundation, we looked at all the accidents, and continue to do so. Michael Farley posted links to what we have, and ai do need to update it.

These conversations are important and need to continue.

One thing we have discussed a bit is something for us all to consider. Many of us learned to fly in certified aircraft, and many of those offer audible stall warnings. In addition to all these excellent safety enhancements, I would suggest that at a minimum adding a Lift Reserve Indicator or Angle of Attack indicator would be a good idea. Having an audible indication would also benefit safety.

I often wonder how many of these LOC accidents have their roots in sensory feedback.

My two cents - worth less than half that

Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
N1517S

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi all and john,
What kind of electric motor( for the flaps) and actuator do u use on your waiex? Where is it mounted? Where did u get it?
Zenith aircraft uses electric motor drive for flaps. Maybe one of their units would work. This sounds like a good upgrade.
We installed a push/pull tube for the fuel, works good.

The DAR that inspected the plane had me sit in it all buckle up and work all controls.

WaiexN143NM
Michael Radtke

[DCASonex]

Do not know what John used, but for my flap operator drive I used a model LACT6-12V-20 concentric linear actuator purchased from Pololu Corp in Las Vegas NV. These appear to be same as sometimes found at Surplus Center, about $100 either place. Drawing and photos of my installation are available.

David A. Sonex TD, CAE 3300.

[fastj22]

I used one from Firgelli Automations.

https://www.firgelliauto.com/collections/rod-actuators

Chose the force and stroke.
I think I used a 150LBS 6 inch model.
Attached to the stock flap handle about mid point and to the bottom longeron against the side wall.
Removed the stock notched bracket and replaced it with a smooth one with stickers on it indicating the degrees of flaps.
It takes a bit of trial and error to get the proper throws for full flap extension and retraction.