New guy from California

[Rynoth]

That's a great Youtube video you have by the way! Very cool time-lapse of your build.

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What made you decide on the turbo vs. the Jabiru? I'm sure cost was a big factor, but anything else? If cost were the same for both engines, do you think you would have gone with the Jabiru? The more I look at it, the more impressed I am by it's specs.

Thanks Brian!

My choice on the Turbo Aerovee vs the Jabiru was mostly cost but also for the build. Jabiru comes built, and most maintenance/overhaul expense comes at a premium price from the factory or shops. The Aerovee I got to build myself (since it comes as its own kit) which had a lot of appeal to me, plus the lower costs of maintenance (provided I built it correctly and run it right!) I may be a masochist, but I'm looking forward to working on the engine myself going forward.

To answer the second part of your question, if cost was the same it would have been a much harder decision. I was sold on the normally aspirated Aerovee and later found it within myself and my budget to upgrade to the Turbo. Still, I would consider costs going forward, in which case the Aerovee (assuming equal longevity and overhaul needs) might still come out ahead (for me.) None of this is to say I wouldn't want 120HP in the climb though, fun! If I had more money and less desire to tinker, the Jabiru would come out ahead for sure.

[Gripdana]

Congratulations on getting your certificate. I am in So. Cal. My plane is hangered at Wm. J. Fox in Lancaster. I'm always looking for a place to fly to. Send me a PM I'll try to fly down there over the holidays. Maybe we can some of the other Sonex guys around to meet up for lunch at Torrance or Long Beach.

[Sonex1517]

Congratulations on your accomplishment! Excellent!

And welcome to the forum and the community!


Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Turbo AeroVee
Chicagoland
First Flight 10/10/2015
10 hours into Phase One
N1517S

[wlarson861]

I agree with Ryan Roth about the cost of a Jabiru influenced my original engine choice when I built my plane. I used the normally aspirated AeroVee at first but upgraded to the turbo this past spring. The performance difference is staggering. I would love to have had the budget to justify the big Jab. but I don't see $6500 worth of performance difference now that the turbo is flying. Building the engine was not as big a chore as I thought it might be. At around 50 hours I blew an oil cooler and burned up the engine crank and connecting rods. The advantage of having built it once was the rebuild was easy and around $1000. A Jab would have been a lot more money to rebuild and I probably wouldn't have had the confidence to do it myself. I can't answer your question as to where the AeroVee turbo out performs the Jab but I can say the TurboVee is still climbing quite well at 8000 feet. At altitudes of 5000 to 6000 feet I see cruise of 140+ (mph) with about 30 inches of MAP and around 5.5 gph. I think a turbo AeroVee is about the best bang for the buck. The used Jab Sonexes sell for about 7 to 10 thousand more than the AeroVee's so cost is an issue. One caveat is that both burn more fuel so endurance is reduced unless you add auxiliary fuel, however range is the same but you get there quicker! Perhaps some of the Jabiru guys will chime in and talk about the performance they see and they may have a good argument for paying the extra cost.

[vwglenn]

That's good to know. Thanks. I thought I would get a lot of heat for not being a builder. LOL.

What made you decide on the turbo vs. the Jabiru? I'm sure cost was a big factor, but anything else? If cost were the same for both engines, do you think you would have gone with the Jabiru? The more I look at it, the more impressed I am by it's specs.

Great to be on the forum!

I didn't build my aircraft and the guys on this site have been very cool with my random posts/questions/comments.

My screen name would suggest where my power plant loyalties lie. I've been a VW guy for decades and the option for the Sonex was one of the main reasons I was attracted to the airplane. When I set out to purchase one I was seeking the VW power for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost was price followed by my familiarity and stack of tools to support it. I ended up with a 3300 powered plane via what I consider a smoking hot deal. Couldn't pass on more power! :twisted:

I've flew the 80hp Waiex for transition training. With myself (I could stand to skip a cheeseburger or 10) and Joe in the plane, it felt more than adequate. However, that training took place in the relatively cool climate of KOSH. Being in SoCal, the heat and hills may be more of a factor for you. The 3300 and VW flew identically with two exceptions. One is the pedal you push on the climb. The other is how fast it gets there. When I got back and flew my 3300 plane single pilot I wag giggling like a school girl on climb out. It feels like a ROCKET.

You have to consider is your mission and balance that against the cost. There is no doubt that the 3300 represents an increased cost over the VW. This applies to the original purchase as well as continued ownership. People tend to assume the 3300 is a more dependable power plant but, in my opinion, that is simply not true. Jabiru has had more than its fair share of issues over the years. So much so that Camit is becoming the "Jabiru" of choice. The issues I've had to work through on my engine to get it running well left a bitter taste in my mouth for a while. I was admittedly having some buyers remorse about my decision to go with the 3300. Now that I finally have it worked out for the moment, I'm feeling much better. You can basically build 2 new areovee turbos for the price of one new 3300.

I think the most important question you need to ask yourself is...
How often am I going to need/want to carry an extra person?
If the answer is rarely...go with the VW. If the answer is occasionally...Get the turbo VW. If the answer is most of the time...Get a Jab.

[1flyingyogi]

Thanks for everyone's replies. Great info! Glenn, do you think the Jabiru 3300 has considerably more power than the turbo VW at sea level? How about at 5000ft? I've heard that, "at altitude" the turbo will perform better than the Jabiru. But what altitude is that?

I will most likely be flying by myself 70% of the time. However, I do want to get into aerobatics, so more power is always better! =) Since aerobatics will be done at higher altitudes, I was leaning more towards the turbo, but that's why I was wondering at around what altitude the turbo will be better than the Jabiru. But being able to have lots of power at sea level to climb out fast on take off and just rocket up and out of the pattern sounds fun too! LOL.

[vwglenn]

Thanks for everyone's replies. Great info! Glenn, do you think the Jabiru 3300 has considerably more power than the turbo VW at sea level? How about at 5000ft? I've heard that, "at altitude" the turbo will perform better than the Jabiru. But what altitude is that?

I will most likely be flying by myself 70% of the time. However, I do want to get into aerobatics, so more power is always better! =) Since aerobatics will be done at higher altitudes, I was leaning more towards the turbo, but that's why I was wondering at around what altitude the turbo will be better than the Jabiru. But being able to have lots of power at sea level to climb out fast on take off and just rocket up and out of the pattern sounds fun too! LOL.

I haven't flown the turbo Aerovee so I can't make the comparison between the Jab and the turbo. Generally the HP rating of the engines is measured at sea level. If the Turbo is rated at 100hp then the Jab has 20% more power at sea level. The high altitude performance of the turbo is beleiveable. You have to beleive the forced air will keep the engine breathing as if it's much lower.

If I was you, I would seek a 80hp VW Sonex/Waiex to buy with the understanding the you intend to upgrade it with the turbo kit. The only thing that concerns me about the turbo is the added complexity. More stuff to break. So far I haven't heard anyone with a turbo install having many issues.

[1flyingyogi]

Congratulations on getting your certificate. I am in So. Cal. My plane is hangered at Wm. J. Fox in Lancaster. I'm always looking for a place to fly to. Send me a PM I'll try to fly down there over the holidays. Maybe we can some of the other Sonex guys around to meet up for lunch at Torrance or Long Beach.

PM sent. Looking forward to meeting up!

Brian

[1flyingyogi]

Hi guys. I've been away for awhile, just looking at my options as to what I want to own in the long run. Thanks Dana for giving me a ride in your Sonex!

I have another question. Do any of you guys have experience or knowledge about the Corvair engines? They seem to be in general undesirable because of the weight and lack of approval from Sonex. However, the few people who have actually owned them seem to love them.

Any comments on the Corvair? Pluses and minuses compared to VW and Jabiru?

I found what looks like a very nicely done Sonex with the Corvair engine. For a while, I just ignored that ad b/c of the Corvair. But should I give it some consideration? Everything else about the plane is just what I would want.

If anyone else in Socal would like to go flying, I'd be happy to go and pay for the gas! Thanks again.

[SonexN76ET]

Many builders love the engines that they have installed in their aircraft. They have a vested interest in that engine and they trust their life to it each time that they fly. For you to select an engine, I would recommend doing a little bit of research by looking at past postings on this site, at builder's logs, on YouTube, and on other related sites to include engine sites. Look for what engines are being trusted to fly on long cross countries and to visit 49 states and the Carribean. Also do an informal survey of how many hours people have on their engines.

Also, I need to point out that the technical support from Sonex is absolutely first class! It is far better than any other technical support I have dealt with on any project aviation related or otherwise.

If you like the idea of building your own engine and are not intimidated by that challenge look into the Aerovee.

If you like the idea of a turn key, crate engine, go with the Jabiru.

If you go with an unapproved engine without solid technical support, your frustration will be unbearable and your first flight confidence will be low. Engineering a firewall forward setup is not for the feint of heart!

Jake