Sonex Fatalities

[johnr9q@yahoo.com]

Before I build a Sonex I would like to investigate how safe the airplane and Aerovee engine are. I thought the Sonex Pilots and Builders Foundation would be a good place to start but after looking at the information on their site, not sure this is a good resource:
1) Their "Accident Information" page is not very accurate
a) They don't include some recent accidents. i.e. Rio Grande Do Sol 5/10/13, Fawnskin 10/20/14 (This was reported in the Non-Fatal
Accidents & Incidents section but it was a fatal), Palm Coast, Fl 10/3/14
b) In their list of "Non-Fatal Accidents & Incidents", in the first 5 listings 3 of the accidents were fatal
c) When you click on the specific accident you are sent to a NTSB site that says "the page can't be found"
2) I have sent them 2 emails asking where I can find information on the Accidents and Incidents they report and hear nothing back.

Are they still active?

[Sonex1517]

Hi John

Not sure who you sent emails to but I would like to know. I am the President of the Sonex Builders and Pilots Foundation. I have not gotten any email from you that I am aware of.

Your comments on the website are accurate. We have two people actively working on running the foundation. We both have full time jobs with lots of travelling. We need to update the site.

However, following last years string of incidents our newsletter had a lengthy safety discussion and included those accidents.

I will try to post the link as soon as I can.

The airplane is very safe and statistics continue to show we are the ones causing the accidents.

Robbie Culver
Robbie@sonexfoundation.org

[Sonex1517]

Try this

http://sonexfoundation.com/uploads/November_2014.pdf

[Bryan Cotton]

The NTSB site is the place to go for accident reports.
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx

[johnr9q@yahoo.com]

Robbie: Thanks for your reference to the Sonex Foundation Newsletter page. It was helpful. Would really be interested in knowing how many of the accidents, where engine failure was the culprit, involver Aerovee engines. Is there somewhere where I could research that?

[Sonex1517]

Hi John

Searching the NTSB reports carefully it is hard to know for sure. Your note about the broken links shows how tenuous linking to their reporting engine is. The links change.

When we looked the AeroVee has no more or less on average than any other VW conversion. The problem is it is extremely difficult to assess the accuracy of this.

As has been often discussed here, in our newsletters, and in a lot of other EAB forums, across the board experimental aviation has a higher fatal accident rate than the rest of GA.

As Jake posted separately today, using a lot of common sense and some basic rules reduces the risk.

This month EAA's Sport Aviation once again repeats the conversation. What kills us is loss of control, fuel issues, and to be blunt poor decisions.

Singling out the AeroVee is not an accurate representation of the issue.

Thanks for getting back to us. Still very interested to hear whom you emailed as we are trying to respond to every email we get.

Robbie

[Bryan Cotton]

Typically there is mention of the engine type in the NTSB reports, especially if the cause was engine failure. You can either go through the reports, or add things like Aerovee or conversion to your query.

[fastj22]

Robbie: Thanks for your reference to the Sonex Foundation Newsletter page. It was helpful. Would really be interested in knowing how many of the accidents, where engine failure was the culprit, involver Aerovee engines. Is there somewhere where I could research that?

I don't think you will find one stop shop for your query. The primary problem is E/AB seem to not have the same degree of investigative energy from the NTSB as certified aircraft. When an experimental goes down due to engine problems, they seem to check a few things, fuel/spark/install error, but rarely document specific issues like they might with a certified engine. I've not seen where they send an uncertified engine off to be torn down. So when a Sonex goes down due to engine failure, we may know if they have an Aerovee or Jabiru installed if you cross reference to the plane registration but will usually not find out much more. I think this is due to two things, limited resources by the NTSB and limited recourse in un-certified installations. In certified engines, if they find a problem that is persistent, they will release a AD for that engine. The best they can do with experimentals is ask the manufacturers to issue a service bulletin (which Sonex has done several times). There was a rare instance with the Zenith CH601 where the FAA grounded that design until a SB was addressed to reinforce the wing spar.

[johnr9q@yahoo.com]

John, Thanks for your information. You said the following: "we may know if they have an Aerovee or Jabiru installed if you cross reference to the plane registration". Can you tell me how to do that cross reference?

[fastj22]

John, Thanks for your information. You said the following: "we may know if they have an Aerovee or Jabiru installed if you cross reference to the plane registration". Can you tell me how to do that cross reference?

You go to the FAA registration entry of the plane. Usually the engine model is specified. But not always.

Here's mine.
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry ... rtxt=116YX