DAR vs FSDO inspection

[Gripdana]

I am getting close to moving to the airport and getting my inspection. I am curious what is the best choice. What are the differences between inspection from a DAR or FSDO?

[marsolgp]

Quick answer is, it depends on the DAR and the FSDO. I had Wichita FSDO do mine (I already paid for them with my taxes) and they were great. Mostly just wanted to confirm I built it and that the weight & balance were in order. They were friendly and did a quick look over the acft but didn't go into any type of 'airworthiness inspection' as it technically is the builders job to declare the acft airworthy…. DAR's I've dealt with and known in the past seem to want to show you what they know and can be difficult…. of course, that can go for the FAA also.
Best bet is to get recommendation from someone in your area, someone with first hand knowledge of a particular individual. Good Luck either way.

[Gripdana]

Thanks. That said does anyone have any experience with the Van Nuys FSDO or DAR's in the Lancaster California area?

[N1906R]

Good to hear your getting close, The real fun is coming. When I got my inspection I used a DAR that was a member of my EAA chapter at the time. He and the chapter had made several project visits over the years it took to build so the inspection was pretty painless. The only complaint was he charged me $300.00 to do the inspection. My mistake was I didn't find that out earlier in the process so I could explore other options. OOPS. I had heard horror stories of getting it done by the FSDO so I never considered it before hand. Also if my memory is correct, the FSDO's no longer do airworthieness inspections, They are now done by the MIDO. This,I believe, is why the repairman certificate is no longer issued with the airworthieness inspection. Good luck with your inspection.

[Fastcapy]

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[mike.smith]

Quick answer is, it depends on the DAR and the FSDO.

That would be my answer, absolutely. I have heard equally good stories on both sides of that question. FSDOs "can" be a little more difficult to schedule, depending on where you live. More than one builder has waited 2-3 months if the FSDO is just not interested. My DAR actually came out, at his suggestion, a couple of weeks before his inspection. He came out as an EAA Tech Counselor and not as a DAR, to make sure he didn't see anything that would flunk my inspection when he came out as the DAR. That gave me time to make changes before the inspection.

As explained to me by my DAR, DARs are limited in what they can charge you for their services. Here is an excerpt from a document my DAR gave me:

"Several years ago, Congress passed legislation, called the Volunteer Protection Act of 1997, to encourage citizens to volunteer their services to others in the performance of activities that are customarily carried out by government employees. Because there is a possibility that some individuals will receive consideration for their services beyond actual true costs, the volunteer act that Congress passed includes a provision that the individuals do not loose their volunteer status providing they do not exceed a limit of $500 in any calendar year in reimbursements that are not directly attributed to the DAR process."

"There are costs associated with applying for, training and other travel necessary in obtaining the DAR Certification. It is EAA's intent that those costs should not come out of the pockets of the individuals volunteering for the program. The initial costs for travel, training and lodging can range from $800 to $1,200. Much of that expense for the initial group of appointees of about 60 volunteers was covered by the EAA Education Funding Grants that were made available. Subsequent recurrent training, required at 18 and 24 month intervals will be funded, in some areas of the country, by the ABDAR EAA Chapter Scholarship process."

"Volunteer DARs do not charge a specific fee. They can recover actual expenses for their effort in providing certification services to individual aircraft builders. Mileage, printing and mailing, meals and lodging costs can be recovered when desired."

"In order to encourage individuals to continue participation and to continue the process, some EAA chapters are establishing a scholarship fund that will be available for ABDARs to the extent necessary to maintain their appointments by attending training etc. The funding for this scholarship will be from donations that are made by individuals who have benefited from the services of the sponsored ABDAR."

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So what my DAR told me was this: I was free to give him whatever dollar value I thought was appropriate for his direct expenses. He requested that if I felt any additional monies were appropriate, that I donate that money directly to his EAA chapter as part of the sponsorship fund noted above. He told me to put the two checks in a sealed envelope (one made out to him; one made out to his EAA chapter), which he did not open until after he left the airport after my inspection. If I had decided to give him $20 then so be it (my two checks were more than that :D ).

So do definitely ask your DAR what the expense will be, but know that they are technically not allowed to do 10 inspections a year (for example) at $300 each, as that would exceed their $500 cap, and it would be difficult to argue the difference was for direct expenses. I'm sure there are DARs like mine trying to live within the limits of the law, while it's possible others may not be.

[Msing48]

Another consideration is to discuss typical test areas with both the FAA and DAR. The DAR in my area will typically give 50 - 150 mile radius, depending on what you request and the type (speed) of the aircraft. The local FAA guys are much more restrictive. They seem to like 25mile radius. In one case, with a Sonex with Jab3300, they gave a narrow corridor from the home airport to another airport 35 miles away, then a 15 mile radius around that airport.

[mike.smith]

Another consideration is to discuss typical test areas with both the FAA and DAR. The DAR in my area will typically give 50 - 150 mile radius, depending on what you request and the type (speed) of the aircraft. The local FAA guys are much more restrictive. They seem to like 25mile radius. In one case, with a Sonex with Jab3300, they gave a narrow corridor from the home airport to another airport 35 miles away, then a 15 mile radius around that airport.

Good point. I showed my DAR a 25mi radius around my airport and that's what he approved. I did it out of ignorance that the diameter was negotiable. I thought 25mi was just a "given." Had I at least asked for 30 miles I would have had 4 other airports in my test area. If I had shown the circle offset to the west, I would have had at least 4 more, and a much more interesting test area. I couldn't use the eastern half of my 25mi circle because it was in Boston's Class B airspace, so that was a waste.

Given the nature of "testing" I don't think upwards of 150 miles fits the letter or intent of the law, but that's just my opinion.

[Sonerai13]

All the posts above contain good info. Allow me to add this. When I was working at EAA, the Van Nuys FSDO was one of the ones EAA members were constantly having problems with. That FSDO was not good to work with at that time (up to 4 or 5 years ago). Now, personnel and management at FSDOs change, so it might be different now. My point is, ask around. Check with others who have recently had aircraft inspected (especially those who worked with the FSDO). Make sure you understand what you're getting yourself into.

Do the same thing with DARs. Ask around. Who is being recommended by builders? What experience have other builders had? This is a place were some homework will pay off for you.

As others have mentioned, the flight test area is not standardized. It is negotiable. If you submit something that's reasonable, you'll probably get what you want. Just remember, the test area is supposed to be over sparsely populated areas and not in congested airspace. Just use common sense and draw something up on the sectional. There are lots of ways to make a workable test area. It does not have to be round, and your home airport does not have to be in the center.

[avee8r]

Good advise from Joe Norris, find out how the local inspectors of both type are to work with.

I used the local FAA, they are free, have an office a hundred yards away and were happy to walk over once my application to the MIDO was referred to them. I used EAA's Certification Kit in preparation, everything went just fine. I requested and received a test area west of Detroit that takes a little more than an hour to fly the entire perimeter of. I used all that airspace at depending on what the primary traffic flow was in use for the Metro Area. I could test up high and down low, both upright and up side down, away from populated areas, off airways yet work with various ATC facilities to get traffic advisories etc... while all the time having airports of varying surface and support for contingencies relatively close. Request what you want with good reasoning and chances are you'll get it.

Happy Landings
John