Sole Ownership (Sonex) Vs. Partnership (RV)

[chaddrz11]

This is my first post, but I've been a lurker here for over a year (same deal on the RV forums), and I want to start off by saying you guys are awesome!

I've had my Private certificate for over a year now and have rented about 50 hours (C172). This has given me time to define my mission, talk with other pilots, hangar fly lots of planes, and come up with lots of Excel spreadsheets with different ownership scenarios. I think that for the time being, my mission is something like this: Day/Night VFR (80% solo, 20% with a beautiful young lady), day/weekend trips around the Northeast (going fast :D ) and, of course gentleman's aerobatics. After flying certified aircraft, I think going experimental is in my future - try to find a reasonably priced certified craft that fits my mission! Along those lines, I'm not made of money, but I can afford to have fun; so I've narrowed my choices down to the Sonex and RV line. It seems like the RV-6 (late 1990's) can be had for about twice that of the Sonex. Knowing that, a two person partnership on an RV and sole ownership on a Sonex seem to equal out in up-front capital costs. Fixed costs (maintenance, hangar, insurance...) seem to be relatively close in this scenario as well. Fuel costs are obviously lower with the sonex, but they could be close to offset by the higher speed of the RV.

Unless I'm forgetting/missing something glaringly obvious, it seems like these two planes could be had for about the same amount of cash...the only difference is you own half of an RV.

My question is: Would you rather own 100% of a Sonex or 50% of an RV-6?

Feel free to judge based on fun factor (that's the goal here, right?), affordability, versatility, or anything else you can come up with!

I realize you guys are probably biased toward the Sonex, but if anyone has made a similar decision I'd love your input!

Tailwinds,
Chad

[Dr Karst]

I haven't flown or owned a Sonex yet but I own and fly an old RV-6 (-3B and -8). I think there are some considerations you haven't mentioned.

1. Splitting hangar costs with a partner could be huge, depending on where you live. If you have to rent a hangar, especially in a metropolitan area, it's a big chunk of ongoing costs.

2. Finding the "right" partner is critical. Partnerships are so full of dangers that I think I would ensure that I had the "right" partner before making such a decision. When the engine blows on that old RV, will both of you agree on how to move forward? And, have the money to do so? How will you split costs if one flies a lot and the other flies very little? What about insurance costs? If one costs a lot more than the other (due to an accident history or lack of experience), will that expense be shared? (Personally, I own 50% of three RVs and love it.....but my partner is perfect and my husband!)

3. Almost all RV-6s have a relatively reliable Lycoming in them. My -6's engine has over 2200 hours on it and still going gang-busters. But, I burn 100LL. Do you want and would you feel comfortable behind an AeroVee or Jabairu? Do you enjoy the extra tinkering that you'll likely have to do with these engines?

Just some additional thoughts to mull over. Bottomline, you are certainly on the right track to be moving into the homebuilt world!

[MichaelFarley56]

Hello Chad,

First, welcome to the board! We're glad you joined us and hopefully you'll find some good information on here. Just as you said...since this is a Sonex board and you're talking to people who enjoy the Sonex, you'll most likely get a lot of bias towards the Sonex! I'm sure if you post this question on the RV forums you'll get a lot of RV favortism.

If I may, I'd like to give you my two cents...

In addition to Sonexes and Waiexes, I also have time in both RV-6's and RV-6A's. I can tell you that the RV line of airplanes are simply wonderful; fast, easy to fly, and a lot of fun! There's a huge builder/owner network out there for people to take advangate of as well. As compared to the Sonex, the downside of the RV's, as you correctly pointed out, is the cost. Buying an older RV-4 or -6 is double a Sonex, and don't forget that the engines and props are mostly certified Lycomings/Hartzells. That means when it's time to overhaul your engine, you are probably STARTING at $20,000.

In my opinion, aircraft partnerships are sort of like rolling the dice; sometimes they work out very well, but a lot of times they don't. I've seen many partnerships that don't work out because people have different mindsets about ongoing maintenance, upgrades, ownership practices or simply when each partner wants to fly. If you and your partner both want the airplane on the weekends, it's not going to last. Just my honest opinion but for that reason alone, if you want an aiplane, owning your own is worth it's weight in gold!

Now to be fair, I do love my Waiex an given the mission you've described, I'd say a Sonex would fit the bill just fine (of course, so would an RV). If most of your flying is solo, just playing around, then consider the sole ownership method of a Sonex. If most of your flying is long distance traveling to meet a schedule, then you'd maybe want to consider the RV.

In a lot of ways, I really look at the Sonex and RV-6 to be similar. Similar handling, similar fun factor, similar enjoyment. Think of it this way; if you would be happy with an RV-6 that only offers 75% of the cruise performance for 50% of the cost, go Sonex! Oh, and don't forget, all Sonexes meet Sport Pilot rules, so you're going to fly the Sonex, you'll never have to worry about renewing your medical!

One last thing...before making this decision, I highly recommend you sit in (or take a ride in) both models before choosing. The last thing you want to do is make a decision and then later decide you made a mistake. Take a ride in both, then decide!

Good luck!

[MichaelFarley56]

(Personally, I own 50% of three RVs and love it.....but my partner is perfect and my husband!)

I hope this means you get first dibs at choosing an airplane anytime you guys go flying together! Sounds like a great deal to me! :mrgreen:

[Sonex1517]

Having been in an airplane partnership, one that we researched thoroughly and had in writing, I can tell you honestly there is no freaking chance I would ever repeat the experience. Never.

Being that this forum is online and in the public domain, I do not want to say much more - but I will say that even with things in writing it became an impossible situation. The first time my new partner used the airplane, he left it with no fuel. The written agreement stated we would not do this.

I could go on and on, but I have said enough - an aircraft partnership is like a marriage. Literally.

Blue skies and welcome to the forum!

Robbie

[Bryan Cotton]

Chad,
One of the reasons I am building a Sonex is the cost of build and ownership. Makes it possible for me to own it alone. If I don't fly as much as I want to, it does not hurt as much as I will have less money tied up.

An RV6 offers more - more speed, more room, more range, more panel space, and more payload. Also comes greater cost, which you can divide in two with a partner. Also you get higher fuel and maintenance costs, which are not divided by two. This is assuming you put away money by the flight hour for engine overhaul and other maintenance. So, there is still extra cost, is it worth it?

I have been in a partnership with a glider. Initially it was a 4 way, then a 3 way, then I bought them out. For me the partnership made a lot more financial sense. It was nice though, when those perfect days sometimes aligned with my free time, to not have to worry about sharing.

I have been in a couple of glider clubs. Also I was in a club with a PA28R. Clubs are awesome, many people join them and don't fly a lot, which subsidizes those who do. But sometimes you have to step aside and make sure everybody gets their fair share.

If you really want or have to have the RV, then a Sonex won't fit the bill. If the Sonex is what you need though, then are you getting your money's worth in the RV. Sort of like guys who buy big pickup trucks just to commute to work. Makes no sense but it is what they want.

You could always do a partnership with a Sonex. Would leave a lot of funds to rent a C172 or something when you needed more airplane.

[Bryan Cotton]

To validate what Louise and Robbie said, I have friends who went through the partnership from hell. There are dangers there. I have two buddies from work in an RV7A partnership and it works great. They have been friends for 30 years and built the airplane together.

[vigilant104]

In theory, the RV partnership has a lot going for it. No matter which plane you buy, it is going to sit in the hangar unused on most days, so why not share the considerable fixed costs (esp hangar and the annual inspection, which won't vary by utilization)?

But, in practice, things are a lot different. With my Sonex, when a new problem crops up, there's no question who is responsible for fixing it (me) and who will make the decision if/how it will be fixed (me). Another big factor is "liquidity" of the various arrangements. If I decided I wanted to sell my Sonex, I could probably do it fairly rapidly, especially if I am willing to compromise on price. My "market" of potential buyers is many hundreds of miles. If I'm in a partnership in an RV and want out, I'm in a much different situation. If my partner doesn't want to buy me out, I have to find someone very close by that 1) likes the idea of a partnership in that particular RV and 2) gets along well with my partner. That might require a long wait.

I'm glad I own my Sonex by myself. But, if the airplane and the partner were just right, I can see how a partnership might make sense. If I could swing the hangar fees myself and if the Sonex met all of my "hard" requirements (esp payload), then I'd go with the Sonex.