Missing Donellon, FL SONEX Flyin Pilot

[DCASonex]

Do not know if this would have affected survivability in either crash, but the one thing that bugged me and which I have addressed in mine was that in standard Sonex, I was unable to reach flaps, brakes, and fuel shut off valve with shoulder belts tight. I now have hydraulic brakes, electric flaps, and panel mounted control link to standard fuel shut off valve. Sonex fuselage is strong, and four point harness is good, but of little use if bouncing around in there.

David A.

[Bryan Cotton]

Fate is the hunter.

Two of the accidents John refers to were WX related. Ihab, I would say there are no accidental bad weather encounters. Especially today. Wires have been the bane of rotorcraft everywhere.

I have lost friends and acquaintances over the years I have been flying. Just lost a friend and fellow co-worker in a champ crash in Georgia this weekend. He was an excellent pilot.

I did notice it was his first solo flight in the airplane. Probably a significant fact. As far as how can you not find a safe place to land, I think there is a lot of phychology going on there. If your options are poor, and you are faced with crunching your airplane, will you do the right thing or will you die in denial as things go wrong? We lost a member of our glider club years ago. Was unsure of landouts, tried to save it from a very low altitude, stalled in low and died of his injuries.

Each accident is a lesson for those of us who remain. Each accident is preventable, if we only knew the cause in advance.

Fate is the hunter.

[ihab]

(Btw, closeup video at http://goo.gl/KJ4Mju.)

Thanks Bryan and everyone. I hope that, if I am ever tested by the fates, I will be decisive, accept a good-enough rough landing rather than stalling on my way to the perfect one, and remember my training and practice good energy management on the way down.

But I'm sure all these other pilots, far better than me, said the same things to themselves.

Ihab

[sonex1678]

Condolences to the family and friends of both pilots....

Both pilots appear to have been very experienced and flying in relatively fair weather conditions, so we have to ask what went wrong and try to learn from the events. I know that flying in Alaska it was critical to be aware of the environment as much was unsuitable for emergency landing (mountainous terrain, ice crevasses, swampy tundra, remote forest, etc.)--living now in Florida, where these accidents occurred, I have to remind myself that much of the terrain here is also unsuitable for what might otherwise be a relatively "simple" engine out landing. Much of the land that is not developed is either jungle like, or swampy, and much is relatively remote and difficult to access quickly, all which make for poor emergency landing options. As a result, flying in much of Florida requires some additional vigilance (planning flights around, or over "at altitude", over remote and/or swampy areas, for example). So please keep this in mind if you live in, or plan to visit, the Sunshine State....

More important, though, is that these seemingly fine aircraft with experienced pilots at the controls had to make unplanned landings, and at least one appears to be because of loss of engine power (on-ground eye-witness) and the same may be true of the other. There seems to continue to be an issue with certain engine types "burping", losing power, or stopping in flight. Investigations into these events often find nothing wrong, so vapor lock is suspected. I think it would be worth a look back at all such events to see if there is a common factor, or factors, such as use of auto gas in hot environments, inadequate fuel line heat protection, inadequate slope of the fuel line allowing a place for vapor lock to occur, or a combination of these and/or other factors. If there is a problem with these engines' operation in certain conditions, we need to identify the causal factors and take corrective action to eliminate or mitigate them, so the off field landings don't occur in the first place. The sooner we do so, the safer we will be as individuals and a community. And the loss of those before us will not be in vain.

[fastj22]

I read the NTSB website every morning as part of my breakfast routine. I want to be aware of what is the reality of what his happening and try to draw some knowledge of the causes. Most are pilot error. What we do is relatively dangerous and we need to be aware and minimize the risk.
I am encouraged by those like Jeff Schultz and Mike Crowder who had engine outs and walked away in very challenging situations even though their planes were destroyed. I am also discouraged when an ATP has an engine out and spins the plane to his death.
In the back of my mind every minute I'm flying, is the real possibility of losing that engine and I become a very inefficient glider. Especially now that I'm venturing into the Rocky Mountains. I hope when faced with the challenge, I fly that plane as far into the crash site as I can.

[radfordc]

How many pilots have actually done a landing with no power. Is the actual event so different than a "simulated" forced landing that instinct takes over for training? I've done a 100 or so actual engine out landings in ultralights. Fly to a position over the field, switch off the engine and glide down to a successful landing. I've also experienced several unplanned engine failures and the emotion is definitely different for me, although training won out and made each one a non-event.

[daleandee]

How many pilots have actually done a landing with no power.

I've done a few and none of them were planned. In one instance I had a Rotax 503 fail in a Challenger about 150' above the the end of the runway with a heavy student in the front. I didn't panic and never thought to turn back but just put the nose into my best glide position from memory (I don't recall even looking at the ASI) and did a hard slip into a muddy field that was the only option before the treeline. Broke the left landing gear but all things considered it was a great landing.

I always understood that in the event of an emergency that a pilot would do what they were trained to do even though they might not understand why at the time. A pilot without training and practice would most likely panic not knowing what to do. Having said that I must admit that I'm not quite ready to shut down the engine on my Sonex and do a true dead stick landing.

Like others have stated I just pray that when I have to put it down in a strange place with no power that I have the fortitude to keep the airspeed up, land on the softest thing available with the lowest possible airspeed, and with the least angle of arrival. From what I understand if you arrive at a low angle to the surface the likelihood of survival increases dramatically.

Dale
N319WF

[sonex1374]

Charlie's point is spot on. You have to train for emergency landings. It's not enough to make simulated or intentional dead stick landings (although that can be a great piece of your overall training approach), you have to teach yourself to respond effectively in the actual event. The emotion of an actual emergency is quite different and you have to give yourself the tools in advance to handle it.

Consider the crash sites of several of the fatal Sonex accidents we've seen pictures of. Each pilot likely knew that site was a terrible landing spot and that their odds would be better just a little bit further away. This can lead to an almost unbearable mental pressure to make the wrong decisions at the worst possible time, like slowing down just a little more to stretch the glide, maneuvering aggressively in the last 100 or 200 ft and stalling/spinning while turning. How many people actually spin their airplanes....or practice turning stalls....or practice turning stalls uncoordinated that lead to a spin? Probably something you should experience before you find yourself needing those skills for real.

I submit that it's not enough to say (and believe) that your training for emergency landings is complete just because you can conduct a power-off spot landing with reasonable accuracy. You need to address the real circumstances that you might face, understand that the emotion of the event might tempt you to squeeze every last ounce of performance from the airplane, and then become very familiar with those subtle cues that let you know when you cross the line and demand too much from your airplane.

If you don't know where that line is, and know how to recognize it, your safe outcome hinges on chance and circumstance. There's a saying that really hits home with this kind of stuff, and I believe it whole-heartedly. "In an emergency, people don't rise to the occasion; they sink to the level of their training." If you only know how to do power-off spot landings, better hope that's enough.

Jeff

[fastj22]

Spin training with an instructor then going out and spinning your own Sonex will give you a great awareness of the dangers of turning when going slow. I recently posted a video of a spin session in my plane. The first one I slowed down to stall speed, then induced a coordinated turn. The plane broke over on her back and I recovered within one rotation. But 300ft lower. Do that near the ground and you won't survive. Doing it up high was not only kinda fun, but gave me situational awareness on the sensations of flying the plane near the edge. What the sight picture is, what vibrations, how the stick felt. Hopefully, if I ever find myself trying to stretch out an emergency landing, that will come back and I can avoid it. Much rather take my chances rolling the plane up into a ball on rough ground or around a tree than turning it into a lawn dart.

[ihab]

I recently posted a video of a spin session in my plane. The first one I slowed down to stall speed, then induced a coordinated turn. The plane broke over on her back and I recovered within one rotation. But 300ft lower.

I do not intend to be sensationalistic, but I do have a question: Do you mean by this that, in a Sonex, a coordinated turn during slow flight leads to a spin? How does it compare to other aircraft in that regard? (And: is that related to the lack of washout on the wing?)

Ihab