SonexBuilders.net

Good Morning,

I decided to post a separate thread with more of my Kit oriented questions about the Waiex.
A lot of what I am asking May have been corrected or upgraded with the Sonex B model kit and that is what I am curious about. I am very fortunate to have an amazing technical advisor/DAR named Lowell Farrand. He has been involved with almost 100 Sonex projects and I am extremely blessed to have his assistance when I start building this project! Now onto the endless questions...

First, I am wondering if you purchase the Waiex B as Sub-kits if it includes the pre-built spar and machined angle components? The website is kind of confusing here as it states on the Waiex B site that it is all included however when you click on the sub-kit description it is listed as an extra option. Second, I was curious if I would be able to build a Waiex with the center Y stick configuration instead of the dual stick? Third, I was told by a Waiex builder that they have a slight wobble to them when headed directly into the wind. I was curious if this has been addressss or resolved with the upgraded tail of the Waiex B. If I remember correctly there was something on the Bonanza V tail that addressed this issue. I am just curious and this is certainly not a major concern of mine.

I would like to build the kit with the following specification:
Waiex B model Standard gear w/ center Y control.
Jabiru 2200, RotaxUlS, or UL260i Engine
MGL iEFIS 8.5” or 10” EFIS Single Screen as I will be using ForeFlight with Stratus as a backup.
Analog Airspeed indicator
Radio and Transponder? - Probably will stick with MGL but open to suggestions
MGL 2 Servo auto-pilot
Leather heated seat option
Sport Acro Ailerons
Sliding glass canopy
Toe Brakes
Sensenich or ground adjustable carbon fiber option from UL


I am sure I forgot some things however this gives a basic idea of what I am after and I am currently debating the final options now. I am wondering how hard it would be to install the Auto-Pilot afterwards or if it would be better to install it as I build the project.

I would love to hear about your experience with the Waiex and your thoughts on this kit! I am extremely interested in learning more and helping out getting my hands dirty on Local projects! I would be more than willing to come assist you with your project...I bring donuts and coffee! I am looking to start building this summer and I am just currently researching all of my options. I greatly appreciate everyone’s insight and wisdom about the Waiex B. I look forward to hearing and learning more about the Sonex Waiex B!

Best Regards,

Nicholas Dawson

I believe the center stick is the only control option for the B models. This I was told was due to the control set up on the new models. As for your choice of instrumentation it will depend on a couple of factors, your choice of engine and how much electrical energy is available after the electronic engine ignition takes its share. I'm not sure what how much juice the Rotax and UL produce. Nor how much they require for their ignitions. Next would be panel space, that is simple if you know the dimensions of the installed instrument(including the space used behind the panel). Analog air speed and altimeter are a good idea if you have room. My battery died and I had to return using the Ipad (foreflight) speed and altitude.
The servos for the auto pilot are installed under the seat of the legacy model so adding them afterward is no different than during construction. The B model may be different, a current B model builder may be helpful on that one. Sliding canopy: as far as I'm aware there is no true sliding canopy for any of the Sonex line. I have a swing back canopy on mine which I like for the convenience of loading from either side and not having to worry about the wind over stressing the canopy when open.
good luck on your build.

Yep, The website is confusing to me as well. I confirmed the prebuilt spars and the machined angel kit are included.... but we are paying for it ... You can get it without prebuilt spars and save a couple grand.

Frankly, in my opinion the B model value proposition is marginal. With a jab 3300 and decent instruments I’m looking at 50 grand...

You might be clicking on the Legacy sub kit wheres where the spars and machined component are listed as options. They are part of the B kits.

This is almost exactly what I'm thinking to build too, but would like more power. So many EFIS options is confusing.

Where are you located? I haven't started building yet, still considering.

Good Evening,

Thank you all kindly for the response and helpful information! I am glad the pre-built wing spar and machined angle components are included. This is my first build project so I think I could use all the help I can get from the factory kit. I am also interested in the Rans S-19 however prefer the Sonex Waiex for its durability.

Wlarson861,

I still have a lot to figure out but appreciate the food for thought! I am interested in the center Y control yoke to give more space in the cabin. I do like the dual stick option as well but as I said would prefer the center Y control for space in the cabin. I would like to have a single MGL 8.5” iEFIS with an analog airspeed indicator and altimeter would be good as well. I will use the iPad with ForeFlight and Stratus for a backup but would be good to have analog in case the battery dies on the iPad. I am unsure about the sliding canopy as well however I did read about a couple B model builders who were talking about going with this option. I am unsure if they planned on designing and building this themselves or what. I would go with the swing back canopy if I am unable to go with the sliding canopy option. I was looking at the Toe Brakes that a board members makes and sells in the classified section. I would like to keep the modifications of the the kit minimal to keep the build times from going into the thousands of hours. I might add these modifications later once I have the kit completed unless it is easier to install the modifications while building. I still have a lot of research to do however these are just a few ideas that I had...

Archer123
I have no problem paying a little extra for the pre-built spar and machined components as this is my first build. I also have no problem paying a little extra for the updated design and extra room of the B model cabin. I am still going back and forth between the Sonex Waiex and the Rans S-19. I am leaning towards the Sonex so I could have sportsman aerobatic capability if I would like to preform these manauevers at a later date. The Sonex would also be a bit cheaper in the end however I do like the fit and finish of the Rans S-19. This is the debate I am going through at the moment..
My calculations with a Jabiru motor and loaded to my liking came to $50k as well... slightly more actually. I may end up going with the AeroVee engine to reduce this cost however I am slightly concerned about the AeroVee based on personal experiences of local builders that I spoke with.
I would prefer a crate engine option and am still researching the best option for my build.

Pfhoeycfi
I think you are correct my friend... I think when you click on the sub-kit link that it takes you back to the legacy sub-kit page! I understand they are mostly the same components but they really should have created a separate B model sub-kit component. That being said, I am glad to hear that the B model kit includes these options in the sub-kits!

Spinetti
I am located near South Bend in Elkhart, and luckily have a lot of awesome local Sonex builders who have been extremely helpful! If you are close to me I can hopefully get you in touch with them as well. I am curious to hear what your interested in building and what you plan on incorporating in the build. There is also a local Sonex Technical advisor and DAR who has inspected and registered almost 100 Sonex. This is why I am leaning more towards the Waiex as local support and assistance is invaluable! Thanks for your post my friend and I look forward to hearing more about your project!

I greatly appreciate everyone’s input and wisdom. These forums are a way for me to learn and research a proper build before spending the money on a Kit! Thank you all for your assistance! I look forward to hearing more about the Sonex Waiex B model!

I hope you all had a wonderful weekend!

Cheers!

Nicholas Dawson

Something you might want to confirm with Waiex owners, but from what I have heard and seen, the Y tail tends to be a bit more tail heavy and the lighter Jabiru 2200, even though moved forward from the 3300 position might not be ideal for that. I do know of several T tailed Sonex with 2200s, one of which likely will be available in this area one of these days as its owner acquired an RV that he is finishing.

David A. Sonex TD, CAMit 3300.

What David said....Waiex’s do appear to run tail heavy. My Corvair engine is a little heavy so it appears will be a good match. The jab 2200 is very light.

Free donuts? Too bad you don’t live a little closer...

Good luck, start building. Gordon

Sonex B Questions......Comment

The Sonex B vs the Rans S-19 has merit...........but why not throw an RV-7 into the mix as well. I have built and flew an RV-6 (circa 1992) and an RV-7 (circa 2009) and these are great airplanes. I can vouch for the fact the Van's kits are superior to the Onex that I am now building. The price of the Sonex B model is about the same as an RV-7 airframe kit. If you install a 3300 Jabiru and a panel equipped the same as a "low end" RV-7 the end price will not be too far apart. The RV comes with toe brakes and a sliding canopy and is stressed for Sportsmen aerobatics. Yes the RV will cost 10k more (for a low end RV) but someday, when your sell it (all of us WILL sell our airplanes someday) the RV will be worth twice as much as the Sonex. Check "Barnstormers" to confirm the what I am saying. You may put a bit more money into the RV but the equity is there and it will more than come back to you later down the road.

Having said all that......why am I building a Onex? I wanted to try something different than an RV for a change AND I wanted the folding wing design so I can park in the corner of my buddies hanger for a 100 bucks a month. I don't fly a lot now (am 72) and the biggest cost is insurance and hanger, not the fuel burn.

Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers in the Sonex crowd.

Gordon..........Onex.......Hummel 2400

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Thank you all for your informative post on the Waiex tail and this makes sense with the upgraded tail. I was initially interested in the Jabiru 2200 engine for the entry cost, and I potentially had a local 0 time 2200 that I could get a deal on. I figured if I could get the Jabiru 2200 for the cost of the AeroVee engine then I would be getting a good deal. That got me interested in the Jabiru 2200 engine and I started doing some research on modifications that could be performed in the future. I am a motor head and have a hard time not going crazy for engine upgrades and performance bolt ons. I know this tends to be frowned upon in the aviation sector and rightfully so. That being said if you are building your own engine from an AeroVee kit then what is so hard about an EFI kit on a factory engine? I was mainly interested in how I could take the Jabiru 2200 and fit it to my mission profile. I would prefer EFI over a carb setup if possible and ideally would like a FADEC controlled Jabiru 2200 similar to UL. I wish Jabiru would offer this option from the factory however I guess this goes against their simple design. I think a FADEC controlled Jabiru 3300 or 3310 would sell like hot cakes! If they could do it for less than the price of the UL260i then it would do quite well IMO. Smoothness of a six cylinder with the lower full burn and ease of use of FADEC? Especially if they could get the fuel burn down closer to the Rotax numbers...

I will be taking a good look at the 3300 and would really like to see what the GEN4 3310 looks like in person. The only thing that slightly worries me is that they are going with cast alimunum parts instead of machined. I guess this could go either way but you usually get tighter tolerances using machined parts. I would love to go this route however the cost of the Jabiru 3300/3310 is quickly approaching that of the Rotax and UL. You do save a little bit of money and in the end you get more performance so I may end up going this route especially if I can find a deal on a low time 3300...

I am also looking into the other VW factory built options from Hummel and Revmaster etc... for a lower cost option.

Gordon,

I would love to throw the RV-7 into the mix however one of my requirements is sport pilot compliance.
I love the Vans aircraft and do like the RV-12 however for some reason can not stand the way it looks. My Fiancé is who I will be building this aircraft with and for... she will be a Sport FW Pilot. She has a lot of input on the project as well for good reason and we have narrowed it down to the Rans S-19 and Sonex. If it were her decision we will be building the Rans S-19 and I do really like this option for cross country. I however would like the Waiex for the Sportsman Aerobatic capability. This is something I have always wanted to get involved in and have a local pilot being trained in aerobatics to go up with...
I do wish I could go with the RV-7 and even though the cabin is cozy it would be a good compromise of cross country and sportsman aerobatics...
I really can’t wait to see the B model in person to see what the cabin and baggage space looks like...

Your points of resale are extremely valid and I agree the resale on a Sonex is not the best. That being said, I don’t see myself quickly selling something that I spent 1000 hours or more building! I do see your point though and you are absolutely correct!

I always bring Donuts... nothing better than powder sugar with your polished aluminum! I wished you lived closer to my friend and hopefully will find a couple local projects to get my hands dirty on. Lowell told me someone local just finished up on a Sonex that has some of the best craftsmanship he has seen! That is really saying something considering he has inspected almost 100 Sonex Aircraft. I look forward to getting to see this build and will be taking notes!

Thanks again for the thoughts and wisdom on the Waiex and other Aircraft... I greatly appreciate it!

Cheers!

Nicholas Dawson