Conex

[ededoad]

The naming rights go to Dan Weseman who built the first Corvair powered Sonex. The name was considered for the Cleanex but was droped. I will post more performance information when I get it. Only flown .2 so far and hope to fly it more this week but it is very windy here.

Regards, Ed

[NWade]

We definitely need more engine options, I think sonex would sell more airframe kits with more engine options.

Look, I like options as much as the next guy... But have you really thought through this statement?

How many engine options does Van's promote for the RV? (Hint: 1 - Lycoming)
...And how "poorly" do RVs sell, given their lack of engine options? (Hint: Most popular kit aircraft of all time, with several thousand flying)

Officially supporting more engine options means more build/design complications. It means engineering the airframe to accept the "worst" possible scenarios in terms of W&B and in-flight stresses. Aircraft are already always a compromise; making further unnecessary compromises does not strengthen the design.

RV builders, and Ed here with his Conex, can experiment and try things - and that's fine, given that its called "Experimental Aviation". But there's a world of difference between what one person is willing to do (with the changes and compromises they're willing to accept and the large amounts of testing and tuning that they're willing to undertake), and what can be serially-produced, built by amateurs, and properly supported by a company in a commercial manner.

--Noel

P.S. If your intent was to say "I'd like to see cheaper engine options and higher performance engines at low weights", then YES I totally agree with you - those are always wonderful developments in the aviation world. But a Continental is none of these things - it is heavier and almost always more-expensive than any of the other engine options that the Sonex officially supports, for no real additional power (and no less fuel burn).

[WaiexN143NM]

Noel,
I wasn't specifically recommending the O-200 as engine of choice. Neat to see Ed experimenting. I know the design limit is 200 lbs FWF. I'm sure the good folks at sonex are always looking for something new in engines that come along, and answer all the questions u have stated above. The UL motors to ME would be a great choice. I'd be first in line to get a FWF package. Engines above 200 lbs are at the operators choice. Corvair, Viking, Continental etc. So far so good with our Jabiriu 3300. For our next Waiex would like to have electronic ignition and fuel injection.
I see u are building, so get it done and enjoy your sonex with your turbo! (Turbos are great!)
Cheers!

WaiexN143NM
Michael Radtke

[rizzz]

I am quite happy flying behind my VW engine, however, I can see where people are coming from when they say they would like to see Sonex support more engine options.

Yes, it is true you don't have much of a choice with Vans either, however, it seems a lot of the people asking for "more engine options" are in fact asking for a "recognized (certified?) aircraft engine with a solid track record".

It is debatable whether either the VW derivatives or the Jabiru's fit any part of that description. As said, I'm happy enough flying behind my VW and I'm trusting it more and more with each flight, but I know many who have strong objections flying behind a converted "car engine". Many also would not come anywhere near a Jab because of their track record, I'm not sure this is justified but some people at CASA for example seem to think so, according to them these things are a menace.

Anyway, I certainty don't believe Sonex should start supporting any possible engine you could potentially fit on a Sonex airframe, on the contrary, it is generally better in my opinion to perfect one or two concepts than spread yourself to thin and do an average job across the board.
However, I do believe that adding a Rotax option to the supported engine list would satisfy a lot of the people asking for "more engine options", i.e. "recognized aircraft engines with a solid track record" (whatever that means anyway).

But of course, as a business, Sonex LLC has to think of the $$$ as well, they need to survive and grow too.
So what makes them the most money?
Potentially selling a few more airframes supporting an extra engine option,
or,
Selling a few more of your own engines not supporting the extra engine option, and of course not paying the extra cost that comes with having to support another engine.

All that said there are always the experimenters as well, people just want to do something different, and that's perfectly fine in experimental aviation.

My 2c

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi rizz,
Well spoken, thank you.
WaiexN143NM
Michael Radtke

[fastj22]

When I talk to my RV buddies, they pretty much say they don't like the Sonex because certified engines aren't offered. They all fly behind certified Lycomings or nearly certified. If Sonex supported the Rotax 912ULS (like RV12, Zenith, etc), I think they would get more builders.
I'm not a fan of the 912, but they do run like sewing machines.

[MikePousson]

It seems John Monnett designed the Sonerai line and the Sonex line around the VW based conversion. The cowling, the width, length and all thing that go into a designing a plane. The Jab just happened to fit under the cowl and was the right weight. Maybe the Revmaster 3000, if it ever comes out of testing will be the right proportions. It's not VW based. Until then, it is what it is. I, personally, am attracted to the Sonex line because of the planes and the engine. If I was wanting a bigger hot rod with a Lyc, Con, or ULPower engine, I'd be looking in a different direction than I am now.

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi all,
Well spoken John , thanks. IF the W/B , airframe stress, etc works out, the small continentals 'may'
pan out. For cost there are many used motors out there, parts, overhaul, etc. plus aftermarket for electronic ignition and fuel injection.
Camit is a good choice for the jabiriu install, many upgrades.
Rotax 912 is the gold standard for LSA right?
Will be watching Kaolin aviation for the FWF package for the UL motors for the sonex line. Seems to be very slow progress.
D-motor what's the latest?
Some new small turbo diesels coming online. I believe superior is coming out with a few models.
Anyone else have any new ideas or info?
WaiexN143NM
Michael Radtke

[rizzz]

It seems John Monnett designed the Sonerai line and the Sonex line around the VW based conversion.

This is true for the Sonerai but I don't believe it to be the case for the Sonex.

The first factory airplanes had Jabiru engines, the very first one was J2200 powered.
VW support and the AeroVee came later.
(John Monnett had a different "AeroVee" BTW long before this one but that's not at all the engine they've been selling under the AeroConversions brand)

Those who have the original Sonex story DVD's (not the new version they sell todat) will verify this. I specifically remember a scene where John mentions the J2200 engine they chose for the airplane and how that "works well" for the aircraft or something along those lines.

I also think the cowling shows this to be the case, the Jabiru cowl follows the line of the fuselage inward, the new universal cowl does not, the original VW cowl did but it had blisters to accommodate for the wider VW engines.

[sonex892.]

It seems John Monnett designed the Sonerai line and the Sonex line around the VW based conversion.

This is true for the Sonerai but I don't believe it to be the case for the Sonex..

Rizz You are correct again. John Monnet definitely designed The sonerai around the VW and the prototype Sonex was designed around the Jabiru 2200. In fact with the Sonerai if you put another type of engine in it you couldnt name it a Sonerai. I plansbuilt the second Sonerai (airframe) to fly with a Jabiru 2200 engine. Since then I have seen and heard Sonerais powered by 0-200s, Subaru's, 912s, 2 cyl BMW bike motors.

I am now looking forward to hear how Eds Conex works out. Performance weights etc.

Steve
Sonex 892
VH-ZSX 3300 TD 2010
Sonerai VH-IIS 2003
Lazair 1982