SonexBuilders.net

Hi everyone,

I don't know if/when I'll have time for this but I thought I'd ask, and it may be of use to others as well.

I feel I'm pretty well versed in the riveted aluminum construction side of airplane building, but I know nothing about engines. If I'm ever to buy or build an E-AB, this would be an important skill to at least know. What is the best way to acquire the necessary knowledge?

I have sometimes thought about getting a cheap 4 stroke engine (Harbor Freight Predator 212cc, used?), taking it apart, and putting it back together again. Maybe playing with some adjustments along the way? Getting rid of the cheesy plastic parts and rebuilding it in a nice techy way?

I wondered about retrofitting a Mikuni TM series flat slide carb, modified with a "mixture control"; attaching EGT and CHT probes, a tach and a 32x10 wooden RC prop, and going through the performance range. Unfortunately, I don't need a second expensive hobby; all this stuff is pretty pricey. :P

Ihab

Someone could even build an "engine trainer" -- something like this with 3 bicycle wheels and a bicycle fork in the rear with "rudder pedals" that trains people in the proper use of the engine controls for an aircraft....

Ihab,
Find an old machine and resurrect it. Maybe a motorcycle, golf cart, tractor, generator - doesn't really matter. When Adam and I build our aerovee it will be prepping him to rebuild my old Saturn, prior to it becoming the family kid car.

Bryan Cotton wrote:Find an old machine and resurrect it. Maybe a motorcycle, golf cart, tractor, generator - doesn't really matter.

Ok, will do. I'm actually ok with general mechanical skills. What I lack is an understanding of actual engines! So I guess something like a generator, which fits into our small garage, would be ideal. Maybe I could even convince my lovely family that it's for "safety" in case of the inevitable SF Bay Area earthquake....

Bryan Cotton wrote:When Adam and I build our aerovee it will be prepping him to rebuild my old Saturn, prior to it becoming the family kid car.

Wow, that's awesome. Except, don't you practice on car engines first before going to aero engines? Since if you mess up a car engine, you can always pull over? ;)

Ihab

Part of teaching kids to build is instilling two things - workmanship and confidence. He has a good start in both. You could also say we should be building models rather than the real thing first. But, we only have so many grains in the hourglass of our lives.

Well said sir! :)

Ihab

The best education I recieved as to the functionality of an engine came from buying and driving an old VW dunebuggy. I learned everything about heating and cooling an air cooled motor, driving one in the far Northern California valley, where summer temps routinely hit *110! Ignition, timing, valve adjustment, carb adjustment, mixture . . . Learned about plastigage because only rich people owned calipers . . . Balanced components, porting and polishing--the list is near endless. Bought a VW for my boys to learn to drive on, and they still have a love hate relationship with them today.

I have 165 k mikes on a Honda Van in the drive--one tune up in its life, one alternator, and three sets of tires--drives like a dream. I just put front brakes and a clutch on my Wrangler JK at 85K, and I bet my wife's new Honda Fit will go at least 150 befor it wears anything out. Those old vws, though, at the miles we drive, I would be flat under my back at least once a month, changing oil, adjusting Valves, replacing fan belts, gapping points, rebuilding webber carbs oh God . . . The list IS near endless!mlol

Good idea for a second car, but not one you have to rely on for thirty thousand miles a year! About the only vehicle that might teach you MORE about engine mechanics would be an old 50's or 60's British bike or sports car. You not only get the constant vagaries of mechanical system failures, but the added bonus of fighting the Demon Electric!

The best education I recieved as to the functionality of an engine came from buying and driving an old VW dunebuggy. I learned everything about heating and cooling an air cooled motor, driving one in the far Northern California valley, where summer temps routinely hit *110! Ignition, timing, valve adjustment, carb adjustment, mixture . . . Learned about plastigage because only rich people owned calipers . . . Balanced components, porting and polishing--the list is near endless. Bought a VW for my boys to learn to drive on, and they still have a love hate relationship with them today.

I have 165 k mikes on a Honda Van in the drive--one tune up in its life, one alternator, and three sets of tires--drives like a dream. I just put front brakes and a clutch on my Wrangler JK at 85K, and I bet my wife's new Honda Fit will go at least 150 befor it wears anything out. Those old vws, though, at the miles we drive, I would be flat under my back at least once a month, changing oil, adjusting Valves, replacing fan belts, gapping points, rebuilding webber carbs oh God . . . The list IS near endless!mlol

Good idea for a second car, but not one you have to rely on for thirty thousand miles a year! About the only vehicle that might teach you MORE about engine mechanics would be an old 50's or 60's British bike or sports car. You not only get the constant vagaries of mechanical system failures, but the added bonus of fighting the Demon Electric!

The best engine training you can give yourself is to buy and old VW and get it running. Then drive it as much as possible.
I started that path 20 years ago with zero experience fixing any engines. Actually converted my old bug to a fiberglass Dune buggy as a test to see if I could justify the expense of purchasing a twelve thousand dollar box of aluminium. I suspect building that car was more difficult than the airframe would've been in some ways. It didn't come with plans or pre-cut parts.
Turned out pretty good though...

Before...


During...


After...


Also turned this...


Into this...


Several other VWs and a couple of these along the way...


Most of the fear of engine building was unjustified. It was fear of what I would mess up. It's been my experience that you pay much more attention to an engine than a paid builder would when you're building it yourself. I imagine that would be especially true of a motor that you would be mounting on an airplane. Before my recent purchase of a 3300 powered Sonex, I was dead set on building the VW powered version for obvious reasons. I'm going to need some wood to knock on, but in the 20 years I've been driving old VWs, I've never had an engine grenade on me. I've driven that bus everywhere, including a trip to Cali and back, and never blown an engine.

Cool projects Glenn. Used to tinker with a friend's family's bugs back in high school but never owned one. Someday may look for one out of nostalgia. There is a Thing parked in one of the open T hangars here and that looks like fun too. I have a few airplanes to do before I get back to cars though.

One other thing I forgot to mention about the Aerovee- though I am building it with my kid I am still the responsible adult. That means it is up to me to make sure it is right, including recovering from mistakes. It will be my butt on the line for the first 40 hours. Hope to not use any of those hard earned glider skills. Wait, that is wrong, I use them every time I fly even if the engine never quits.