Baling Out

[GraemeSmith]

Random ramblings and looking for input. NOT to start a fight! Just interested in viewpoints....

- The Sonex is a nice little and reasonably strong positive G aerobatic plane.

- In other threads we have discussed canopy locks and how hard it might be for a rescuer to get you out if you are crashed on the ground - so by extension - how easy would it be to get the canopy open if you needed to bale out?

- Has anyone ever baled out?

- Why? Structural? Rigging? ???

- AND - single person acro does not REQUIRE a parachute. If you fly acro - do you wear a parachute? Yes / No? What's your thinking/rationale?

- Anything else?

[GordonTurner]

The parachute thing is one of those never-ending debate topics. I have flown plenty of aerobatics in my younger years with no chute, and plenty with an ejection seat. At this point in my life...I can picture the situation where something snaps, where I’m having my nice spin but then getting no response to control inputs while the ground is quickly getting closer. At this point in my life, I would rather spend the money and deal with the hassle then spend my last few seconds wishing I had.

As far as getting out of the plane...I strongly believe that if you want to get out you will. It depends more on your will to live than any of the many impediments you can or cannot imagine. On the other hand, nothing will go wrong so why bother with a chute?

Cheers. Gordon

[WesRagle]

I kind'a wish we still had the contents of the old Yahoo Groups postings. I have no personal experience, but I seem to remember a guy who forgot to latch his canopy, or his canopy came open in flight, or ... posting about it. If I'm remembering correctly, after it opened, the canopy tried to beat him to death.

So, the initial stages of egress might be even more exciting than expected.

Wes

[Fastcapy]

Generally you are more likely to die in the plane still wearing the chute or unlatch the chute harness when you egress.


I mean Sean D Tucker bailed out once and he had one hell of a time. Canopy put a dent in his helmet and then he hit the tail and got stuck in the flying wires. So if a guy like him has issues like that good luck to is guys who don't practice egress all the time.

Not to mention the Sonex is tight for a lot of people anyway. I tried a friend's chute and it was a tough fit in the Sonex. The chute was a hybrid seat/back pack and it still pushed me up higher and forward more than the seat cushions do and I didn't fell comfortable with it.

For passengers it is just silly. Do you really think your average person is going to remember what to do in a situation that requires the chutes use?

If you are doing extreme 12g aerobatics I can see where it might benefit but for a few loops and rolls I find it more of a hindrance.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

[peter anson]

I kind'a wish we still had the contents of the old Yahoo Groups postings. I have no personal experience, but I seem to remember a guy who forgot to latch his canopy, or his canopy came open in flight, or ... posting about it. If I'm remembering correctly, after it opened, the canopy tried to beat him to death.

So, the initial stages of egress might be even more exciting than expected.

Wes

You're making it sound very personal Wes, like his Sonex was holding a grudge. While my own preference is to go down with my ship, if you were intent on getting out of the aircraft I suspect the best way would be to punch out, or more specifically, kick your way out. I am reminded of the story, which could be airfield myth, about a glider pilot who found it very easy to exit the aircraft. He was using a small screwdriver to adjust one of the instruments when he dropped the screwdriver which fell beyond his reach so he undid his harness to allow enough movement to reach the tool. At about that time he hit a thermal and was propelled against the canopy with such force that he found himself outside the aircraft. Fortunately he was wearing a parachute so survived the incident and the aircraft, without its burden, managed to land with relatively minor damage, although it needed a new canopy.

Peter

[lpaaruule]

I fly with a parachute about 60% of the time. I agree with others that it is uncomfortable. I have a guy that is about 30 min away that repacks it for me at a reasonable cost, so that's not an issue.

I occasionally think of selling it as it's such a relief to fly without it, and I wonder if I would even be successful in bailing out.

I've heard that some RVs use weak aluminum rivets that are supposed to fail if the the canopy opens in flight, so it will just rip off. I've even thought about using plastic rivets, but with metal "C" shaped fittings that would hold the hinge together unless the pilot side opened.

I don't fly with a parachute when I have a passenger. I wouldn't even want to consider leaving a passenger behind. Have had some funny conversations with other pilot friends about what they'd do if I tried though.

[NWade]

I personally know 2 glider pilots who successfully bailed out of tight cockpits after in-flight structural failures. One of which went into a steep spiral dive and the pilot remembers hearing the wings get ripped off before being able to get out. He may have had some cracked ribs, black eyes, a twisted ankle from landing on the side of a mountain, and he had to walk for ~3 hours before rescue crews found him - but he made a full recovery.

I was running the glider contest where this incident happened so I had to coordinate with SAR, and I had to be the one to speak with his wife for the first ~6 hours - when we didn't know if he was alive. It was tough enough to do even with a good outcome; I don't ever want to have to deal with a situation like that which ends in tragedy.

Its cheap insurance, and for a lot of pilots its worked.

But you do need to maintain your gear and you need to practice using it (simulate bailouts on the ground, practice looking down to distinguish your belts from your chute buckle, etc). And - as others have stated - if the chute is uncomfortable you're less likely to use it. The good news is that there are a LOT of different styles of parachute out there and you can find one that works for you (see http://www.softieparachutes.com/parachute-models.html for an example of the different types and shapes of parachute packs)

--Noel

P.S. Someone mentioned Tucker's difficult bailout. Go back and look at what his airplane after impact and tell me you'd rather ride that into the ground than have a "tough" bailout... ;-)

[lpaaruule]

You make a good point on practicing bailouts. The guy that packs my parachute keeps telling me to come by with my plane sometime so he can help me figure the best way to bail out. I haven't taken him up on the offer yet, but hearing this gives me more incentive.

My parachute is a softie mini that's packed "diaper down" so more of the bulk is in the lower back. I had thought about getting the wedge, maybe that would have been better. Most of the time it isn't that uncomfortable, but the cockpit just seems more crowded.
Everything has its compromises though.

[Sonex1517]

I spent 17 years jumping out of “perfectly good” airplanes, often with multiple cameras on my foolish head. I strongly encourage you to go to your local drop zone, and - even if you have to pay - learn not only how your emergency rig works, but how to steer the canopy and prepare to land it.

When you take it in for a repack, put it on, and then pull the handle. Seriously. You do not want the first time to be when the poop hits the rotating blades.

I have some serious doubts about getting out of a Sonex in an emergency. But if you plan it, and practice it, then it may save your behind. Again, don’t make the real thing the first time.

Better yet, go make a jump.

[GraemeSmith]

My jump career wasn't as long as yours Robbie - but the girl who ran the college parachute club was cute.....
The ex-British Army paratroopers who trained us were not so cute...

It's not just the getting out and pulling the rip cord. Learning to land is a good skill to have. Something I still practice. You never know when you might have to jump out of the second floor (UK first floor) of a burning building. If you know how to "PLF" you stand a pretty good chance of walking away.

July 2020 issue of IAC's Sport Aerobatics has a good article about planning for baling out successfully.