Sonex Accidents

[Sonex1517]

I am the original poster and I see no improvements in the accident information provided in the Sonex Builders and Pilots foundation. If you look at the following you will see there have been a bunch of accidents not reported. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/db ... cType=SONX

That would be correct.

If you feel like you have time and energy to be involved, please step up and help the foundation. It is an all volunteer effort in need of assistance.

[johnr9q@yahoo.com]

That would be correct.

If you feel like you have time and energy to be involved, please step up and help the foundation. It is an all volunteer effort in need of assistance.

I am a Sonex lurker. I would love to build one but probably never will. I spend all the money in the family for Mountain Biking and Rock Climbing and trips for same and my wife asks permission to buy a new knitting needle so I feel guilty taking on another hobby. It just seems to me that to have a database that would include all accidents and be a lot more comprehensive than the one I quoted in my earlier post
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/db ... mit=Submit or the one I compiled in my initial post file:///C:/Users/John/Downloads/Sonex%20Accidents%20(9).pdf would be something that SonexBuilders would work hard to insure was compiled. I developed my initial list because I was concerned that putting a turbo on a VW engine was expecting too much for that little engine to handle. I see that many others also are concerned about this. When Sonex CEO Jeremy Monnett was killed when that engine failed I thought there would be more discussion on the subject so I did my own research to find out the reliability of that engine but couldn't find much. Maybe I'll try to get my list up to date but I won't expect much help from this forum. I asked for people to give me inputs but there has not been a response on this thread since 2015. If people want, they can email me at johnr9q@yahoo.com and help me out with information I can add to the list. Mainly looking for what type of engine the aircraft had and cause of the accident. I realize there isn't complete investigations of many Sonex accidents but probably word of mouth etc will provide some insights into cause.

[chris]

I started compiling some research a year or so ago in a google spreadsheet about sonex stall spin accidents with data from the NTSB . I included links to the NTSB site as well as probable cause and some other items. I did not include the type of engine on the aircraft as that was not my interest at the time. I only made it as far as 2011.

But I would like to offer a solution. We can combine the data from Johns pdf with my data, add a powerplant column and then finish it out for the past 7 years. I would like to share this Google Sheet via PM so that anybody who wants to help me can collaborate. SO if you want to help compile this data then PM me your email address and we can work together. Preferably applicants will be familiar with working collaboratively using google sheets.

Edit : Up to mid 2014 now on the spreadsheet and removed a comment that John might have found offensive.

[lutorm]

What we need for things to be really useful is not just information about accidents but also information about the not-accidents. We need to know what engines people have that haven't had a failure, we need to know how many hours people fly without having an accident, etc. Without this info you can't draw any conclusions.

For example, if we get a list of engine failures that have 10 Aerovees and 0 Corvairs, it doesn't tell us anything. Maybe there are 0 Corvair failures because there just aren't enough of them flying. Or maybe the Corvair is really significantly more reliable. Impossible to tell.

[chris]

This data is basically just the NTSB data from Sonex Accidents in one location.

This is an incomplete work in progress but viewable here:

http://sonexbuilders.net/accidentdatabase/

I would like to point out that despite of all the complaints, I have yet to receive any offers of assistance regarding the database.

If anyone would like to add additional data or help with future updates, please PM me.

[daleandee]

For example, if we get a list of engine failures that have 10 Aerovees and 0 Corvairs, it doesn't tell us anything. Maybe there are 0 Corvair failures because there just aren't enough of them flying. Or maybe the Corvair is really significantly more reliable. Impossible to tell.

Concerning Corvairs in particular I'm only aware of perhaps two to three dozen (I haven't kept up with it) of the Cleanex type aircraft having flown. I'm not aware of any failures in these few that can be attributed to the engine itself.

Keep in mind that there are variations in builds as there are with the VW engines (Aerovee, Hummel, Revmaster, Etc). So how would the specifics break out? As an example would the list have VW engines (every build type listed) or Aerovee only. Would it have all Corvairs (WW i.e. Fly Corvair, Dan Weseman i.e. SPA, Bill Clapp i.e. Azalea,) or only the William Wynne conversions? Would we look at only Viking engines (Eggenfellener) or any Honda type conversion (Raven, Firewall Forward Aero)?

To my knowledge, in Cleanex type airplanes the only recent Corvair incident that comes to mind is this one:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20170422X03928&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=LA

Seems the reason for this failure is pretty clear.

No doubt that other Corvair powered airplanes have had accident/incidents. There was a Corvair powered Zenith crash near me a couple of years ago when it ran out of fuel returning from a cross country. Many are aware of the crank breaks that Mark Langford had in his KR. So, as they say, no engine is perfect. I only trust mine completely when it's in the hangar and not running.

BTW ... if there are secrets to getting this information to come up on the NTSB site I'd like to know them. As noted earlier, this information can be very difficult to track down and the REASON for failures is most times still unknown. But that's exactly what we need in order to minimize the accident rate.

Hope this helps ...

Dale Williams
N319WF @ 6J2
Myunn - "daughter of Cleanex"
120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
Tail Wheel - Center Stick
Signature Finish 2200 Paint Job
171.9 hours / Status - Flying
Member # 109 - Florida Sonex Association
Latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VP7UYEqQ-g