Best choice...

[Texfly]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new in the Forum and the Sonex world. I'm a Sports Pilot student and I fell in love with the Sonex while searching which aircraft would suit my mission.

However (...darn Internet...) I found this link that worried me: http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/z ... comparison

Can you experts/pilots give me your opinion? Some of the main concerns are:

- Engine power
- Cross country
- Cabin size
- Built vs kit

Also, how do I see/test one? I live in Beaufort SC and the Marketing office answered only to my first email (no answer to my other two..). I have been able to pull most of the cost information from this forum...I will put a spreadsheet together and share.

All feedback/help is appreciated!
Tex

[Bryan Cotton]

Tex,
Welcome to the forum! Hope you figure out what you want to build or buy and are successful!

Regarding the Zenith post - wow, where do I start?

First, X/C. Lots of flyers here have shared their experiences. Check out the trip report forum:
viewforum.php?f=17

Bob Barber's trip from TX to AK north of the arctic circle is probably the pinnacle story of X/C. But there are others.

Regarding Sonex not having CNC and matched hole technology is like saying Ford cars don't have fuel injection. It was true, once upon a time, but is not current information.

I have been happy with tech support and thrilled with the community. I have done most of my tech support via email and pictures. I hate talking on the phone.

I would not take structural criticism from the Zenith community very seriously. Search on the CH601. Or read this:
http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/acci ... rn-failure

In fairness, there was a Waiex fatality and a design change after. It was well documented by the NTSB and you can find it on Sonexbuilders. I read it, am satisfied with the design and fix. I bought a Waiex kit after studying the report. I am an engineer in the aerospace industry.

It is true that for their low advertised price they assume the most basic cockpit. I have no idea what is wrong with that. What would you do?

Fuel in the wings is a plus. Saying that though, I have to admit that much of my flight time is in a Pawnee with a fuselage tank. Plus I have cub time, BC12D time, and helicopter time all with fuel in the fuselage.

I paid like $19K for my Waiex kit, prebuilt spars and machined angle component option. The guy who wrote that letter is not an A student in math, especially considering the costs have increased over the years.

An Aerovee kit is $7K plus accessories. The buy-in cost is part of the story. Part of it is the rebuild cost. An O200 does not shine there, though it is a great engine.

Those are my thoughts!

[gammaxy]

There's a couple of things in that letter that are now a little outdated:

• The kit now includes matched hole parts.
• The factory now offers transition training in factory aircraft.

Sonex's scratch-build option was a big factor in my decision to build one. I ended up kit building the wings and tail and scratch-building the fuselage. I've been building for a few years and hope to be flying in a couple months or less.

Kip Laurie has considerable Sonex cross country experience. Here's one of his trip logs: http://sonexbuilders.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5#p10

I did 3 hours of transition training at the factory with Joe Norris in a tailwheel, aerovee-powered Waiex. I'm 6'2" and ~190lbs. I expect his weigh to be similar to mine. We flew two 1.5 hour stretches and I was comfortable (our arms were touching, but I was already expecting that). Plenty of leg room, but not much seat room. I feel like I'd be happy flying 3 hour legs with a similar passenger, but the 480lbs useful load (620 empty to 1100 gross) would be a concern with baggage and fuel. The factory-published gross weight is 50 lbs higher with the Jabiru 3300.

At WOT a couple thousand feet AGL we were going ~135mph which seems consistent with the 130mph number they list at sea level. I feel like we were seeing 500 fpm climb at 80mph. The website claims 800-1000fpm which I believe to be optimistic (right at sea level, cold temperatures, climb prop, etc., but would love for someone to show otherwise). The engine seemed to have no trouble staying cool on an ~80F Wisconsin day.

The training only left me feeling more satisfied with an Aerovee Sonex for my expected mission of flying my kids around on weekend trips. Part of that was already knowing what to expect.

[radfordc]

Of course if you want a fair comparison of a Ford you should go to the Chevy website!

[radfordc]

Can you experts/pilots give me your opinion? Some of the main concerns are:

- Engine power
- Cross country
- Cabin size
- Built vs kit

Engine Power: 80 hp Aerovee. Provides 120 mph cruise on less than 5 gal/hr. Will fly the plane at full gross adequately. Will fly the airplane over full gross, too.

Cross Country: My first flight in my Sonex was from Detroit to Kansas City...600 miles. Does that qualify as "cross country". Since then I've been to Oshkosh (500 miles) several times and to Crossville, TN (600 miles). I only fly in day VFR conditions, and only fly 2 hour legs (old guy bladder).

Cabin Size: I'm 6'2" and 220+ and I fit comfortably. I've flown with other 6 footers and with one guy who was north of 250. The cockpit is roomy solo and not so much with a passenger.

Build vs kit: I wouldn't know. I bought my plane already flying. You can too! Buy mine!


Other considerations: Sonex is fully aerobatic...and the wings don't fall off! The Sonex is cheap to buy and operate (buy mine for $23K). The Sonex is a taildragger which automatically makes you a better human being. And finally, Sonex folks are just "nicer".

Charlie

[vigilant104]

The Zenith 601s and 650s are fine airplanes, and many people get a lot of enjoyment out of them.

It is my opinion, based on talking with Zenith owners and reading what they have written, that the cruise speed numbers published by Zenith are not obtainable in practice. The Sonex cruise numbers are accurate--I see them in flight.

The Sonex is rated for solo acrobatics, the Zenith is not.

The Zenith does feel roomier inside. It's also draggier and heavier. The ability of the Sonex to provide good, fun performance using an economical VW-based engine is a major plus if cost is a concern.

Take a look at the reports on the handling of the Zenith, and better yet, fly one before making a decision. Fly a Sonex, too. Assuming that you are flying to have fun, the way the plane responds to controls and the way it feels in flight should be very important factors in your decision.

There's nothing wrong with a Zenith 601 or the 650B, but it is a plane designed to do different things than a Sonex accomplishes.

[Bryan Cotton]

Tex,
You can find builders/owners here:
http://builder.sonexaircraft.com/cgi-bin/search.pl

I see two in Beaufort, one flying and one in progress. Plus there are several others within 100 miles of you.

[daleandee]

Also, how do I see/test one? I live in Beaufort SC ...

Tex

Hello Tex,

I'm located in Moncks Corner, SC and my aircraft is hangared at 6J2 (St George). Mine is not a true Sonex as the airframe is a Sonex but the engine is a Corvair conversion. This combination is mostly referred to as a "Cleanex." If you're in the neighborhood and want to talk Sonex and look at mine you are more than welcome.

Dale Williams
N319WF @ 6J2
Myunn - "daughter of Cleanex"
120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
Tail Wheel - Center Stick
65.1 hours / Status - Flying

[fastj22]

At my airport, there are 5 Sonex and only one CH601HD. Last year, there were zero Sonex and one CH601HD.
The growth market is in the Sonex I think.

However, the CH601 and 650 have the advantage in cabin room, useful load, head room and comfort. Do they offer a taildragger version?

The Sonex has the advantage in speed and aerobatics. And being probably the easiest taildragger to land in its class.

Both designs can use the Jabiru 3300 or Corvair. Not sure if anyone has put an Aerovee in one. 80HP might be a bit low. The 601/650 can use a heavier Subaru. That's what the local one is.

[N111YX]

From the Zenith "response letter"...

"but no Sonex owners I’ve met take their planes anywhere - these planes don’t seem to be used for cross-country at all (because of the engine and cabin size?)"

Credibility level reduction feature fully engaged.

LOLOLOLOL... :lol: