Sonex High Wing!

[BobDz]

In light of the current troubles over at Vans, I think a slow rollout is not a bad thing.

Ditto

[dboeshaar]

In light of the current troubles over at Vans, I think a slow rollout is not a bad thing.

Ditto

But the grief at Van's is really not directly related to development. Bad primer, bad laser holes and supply chain grief is the trifecta of this disaster.
Sonex does not have this grief, right?

Dkb

[Bryan Cotton]

But the grief at Van's is really not directly related to development. Bad primer, bad laser holes and supply chain grief is the trifecta of this disaster.
Sonex does not have this grief, right?

Dkb

Of course I have no clue as to what is going on. Either at Sonex or Vans. I get the feeling when I hear Sonex folks speak that they have enough irons in the fire and are trying not to overextend themselves. Not just now, but for several years. My hypothesis is that the issues at Vans are not just divine intervention, but there must have been some bad choices made. How do you make bad choices? In my own industry I have seen it happen when you are trying to do too much, too quickly, with not enough people.

Hopefully Vans bounces back. They are a great company, great airplanes, and a huge legacy. The homebuilt aircraft industry is small enough that it hurts to lose anybody. Here's hoping that Sonex stays strong and weathers whatever comes.

[Skippydiesel]

I see that High Wing (HW) has a max take-off weight (MTOW) of almost 600kg. (13223 lb)

This is great, as here in Australia that has been the MTOW for Recreational Aircraft Australia (RAA) registered aircraft, for many years.

My Sonex has a MTOW of only 522 kg (1151 lb) which makes it very marginal as a 2 person aircraft. A lot of fuel must be left out, making the aircraft only good for a 2 person, short local flight ie very poor/nil X country capability.

I asked Sonex for un upgrade to 600 kg (non aerobatic) specifically so that I could tour with wife/friend - was flat refused.

BUT

RAA has recently moved towards a MTOW of 760 kg (1676 lb) - Sonex HW needs to consider a higher MTOW if they want to stay competitive.

[Scott Todd]

A typical Sonex weighs about 650 pounds. That leaves 500 for useful load. 16 gallons of fuel is 3 hours and around 400 miles for the Little JAB or AeroVee. This leave 400 for people. These are comparable to a Cessna 150. Slimming down to 2 hours range and 250 miles yields another 50 pounds for 'Well Conditioned' people. This seems more 'normal' than 'marginal'.

I think the High Wing will exceed these numbers which should make it quite competitive in the market.

[Bryan Cotton]

I agree with Scott, with the caveat that my Aerovee is slower (100 kts) and burns less gas (4gph). Of course if you have added enough extra stuff to exceed 700 lbs empty, it's a different scenario. For long XC trips I ship my baggage UPS to be able to carry more gas. Haven't done any long solo XC yet but that would leave tons of payload.

[Skippydiesel]

A typical Sonex weighs about 650 pounds. That leaves 500 for useful load. 16 gallons of fuel is 3 hours and around 400 miles for the Little JAB or AeroVee. This leave 400 for people. These are comparable to a Cessna 150. Slimming down to 2 hours range and 250 miles yields another 50 pounds for 'Well Conditioned' people. This seems more 'normal' than 'marginal'.

I think the High Wing will exceed these numbers which should make it quite competitive in the market.

Your Sonex empty weight is aspirational, once you go past a very basic Aerovee powered Sonex.

My Sonex Legacy/Rotax 912ULS/Airmaster CS/wing tanks (100L) - tops the scales at 340kg (750lb) - result! it's basically a single seater. Increasing the MTW (non aerobatic) to 600kg would change this.

[Bryan Cotton]

Your Sonex empty weight is aspirational, once you go past a very basic Aerovee powered Sonex.

My Sonex Legacy/Rotax 912ULS/Airmaster CS/wing tanks (100L) - tops the scales at 340kg (750lb) - result! it's basically a single seater. Increasing the MTW (non aerobatic) to 600kg would change this.

I thought my Waiex was heavy - currently at 673 lbs. Would be interested to know how much of the 77 lbs delta between our aircraft is engine.

IIRC the 3300 weighs the same as the Aerovee.

[peterp]

Bryan,
I don't think it's the engine, the Rotax power legacy I built was 295 kgs or 650 lbs

[Skippydiesel]

Bryan,
I don't think it's the engine, the Rotax power legacy I built was 295 kgs or 650 lbs

I am the finisher/completer of this Sonex/Rotax; Features that may contribute to its high empty weight:

30L x2 wing tanks & associated plumbing, fuel level sensors, fuel transfer pump + 40 L header tank in standard Sonex location.
Airmaster CS 3 blade propeller
Comprehensive anti corrosion undercoat - DeSoto & Alodine
Anti oil canning/noise insulation throughout
Leather covered seat cushions
HD baggage compartment
Wheel pants by Sonex(?)
Goodyear Flight Custom III 5.00-5 6 ply tyres
Toe brakes
Aviation Products tailwheel
Homemade engine cowling