Cost of living ;) with a Sonex

[ihab]

Friends,

Thank you so much to all who have replied here and the few of you who sent me personal emails. Truly, the best thing about Sonex aircraft is all of you.

It's funny really. If you do not figure in the opportunity cost of money (or loan payments), the cost per hour of flying 50 hr/yr is about $115/hr. It's amazingly consistent from a whole bunch of figures from a bunch of people. And it does not seem to be very sensitive to fuel consumption; it's mostly the fixed costs that dominate at that usage. Heck, insurance and tiedown alone easily account for $50+/hr of the cost! And these costs won't change much for any reasonable flying vehicle, however economical.

Interestingly, also, when I count club dues into what I pay for my C162 Flycatcher, for 50 hr/yr, I also end up with about $115/hr, give or take. So that seems to be the break-even point.

Once we raise the number of hours flown per year, things become different very quickly. So my conclusion, actually -- and this may or may not be possible -- is that the ideal situation would be to find a partner I can trust and co-own an airplane.

Co-ownership would be a reliable way to amortize the fixed costs over the number of hours flown per year. At 100 hr/yr, the hourly cost (again absent the opportunity cost of money or loan payment) goes down to approximately $75/hr. Now we're talking.

Based on all this, I think I know what I'm going to do --

1. Wait for the FAA to show their hand regarding medical reform. If I can fly a 4 seater with 4 people on board without a medical, I would definitely go that route, since I'd be able to take my family places with me.

2. Think about what airplanes I'm likely to find partners for. Again if the FAA makes it possible for me to fly, say, a C150 without a medical, and if that would make all the difference in whether I can find someone to partner with me, then that might control.

3. That all said, if I'm going to be in small 2-seaters anyway, the Sonex still seems awesome due to its structural strength (stressed to Utility at gross) and simplicity. If I can find someone who feels similarly, that'd be great!

Thank you all again. Kind regards,

Ihab

[mike.smith]

I have built a great spreadsheet/model you can play with to see how # hours impacts hourly rate vs. total monthly cost (they are inverse related and swing the numbers greatly).
All of the fields are variables but currently set at my best estimate of costs of an aerovee Sonex.
I hope this helps! See attachment.

$3.80/gal for 100LL at my airport right now! By your spreadsheet I'm at $48.50/hour flying 10 hours/month (which is what I averaged until the New England winter took us out at the knees). I can live with that! :D (Cost of condition inspection = 0, Insurance = $1,600/yr, tie-down = $110/month, no loans).

[fastj22]

Ihab, you also need to consider the value of not having a certified plane. When you rent a Flycatcher or buy a C150, you cannot do anything to that plane without an A&P signoff. I'm a hands on kinda guy, shade tree mechanic, tweaker and wanna be Orville Wright. I absolutely love experimental aviation and the liberties it gives us. Even if you buy a flying Sonex for twice the price of a C150, you will be happier if you like to tinker. Plus, the C150 will get real boring after 50 hours. It does what it does very well, goes slow, very predictable and not very exciting. If thats your mission, its a very good plane for that. If your mission is to experiment, then it is not a good plane for that.

[GWMotley]

The real cost of living with a Sonex (or any other plane) is the sleepless nights thinking about what you want to do next to your plane, project, or baby as you see it in your mind! The countless hours a day dreaming about fixing, upgrading, or flying! The incessant checking of the Internet sites, i.e. Sonex Builders, to learn some new secret about your passion. Money is just something that gets in the way!

[fastj22]

The real cost of living with a Sonex (or any other plane) is the sleepless nights thinking about what you want to do next to your plane, project, or baby as you see it in your mind! The countless hours a day dreaming about fixing, upgrading, or flying! The incessant checking of the Internet sites, i.e. Sonex Builders, to learn some new secret about your passion. Money is just something that gets in the way!

Stop it Gary. I'm just finishing up a "2 day" upgrade to my plane that going on 6 weeks. And I missed a couple of flight days with you. But I'm loving every minute of it. You should come see the new nose job.

[SonexN76ET]

Ihab, Because of your great enthusiasm for Sonex aircraft and building things, I would like to encourage you to build your own aircraft. I know you have space limitations and family commitments, but there are many paths to building. I would encourage you to buy a tail kit and see how you like building. Then buy a wing kit and build those. I live in an apartment in Atlanta and rented a storage unit and quietly did some building in there. Then I found a small hangar on a private strip an hour away and spent one long day per week building there. I heard someone built a Waiex in a NYC apartment. Where there is a will there is a way. I think you would really enjoy the building and learning experience. If you are ever in Atlanta, please look me up and I will take you up for a flight.

Jake

[jjbardell]

I'm in a similar boat. I want to fly more and my clubs Archer is now taking in 150hr. I'm done with crazy rates even if my total cost goes up. I'd love a partner and when I find my plane (anyone selling a great sonex that isn't already posted?) I'll enjoy and then search for that partner. Good luck and if you live by me I'd go in with you.

[mike.smith]

I have built a great spreadsheet/model you can play with to see how # hours impacts hourly rate vs. total monthly cost (they are inverse related and swing the numbers greatly).
All of the fields are variables but currently set at my best estimate of costs of an aerovee Sonex.
I hope this helps! See attachment.

$3.80/gal for 100LL at my airport right now! By your spreadsheet I'm at $48.50/hour flying 10 hours/month (which is what I averaged until the New England winter took us out at the knees). I can live with that! :D (Cost of condition inspection = 0, Insurance = $1,600/yr, tie-down = $110/month, no loans).

Oops. That should have been $1,160/yr for insurance. Got my 6's in the wrong place! Now that I've flown my tail dragger for 70 hours, and I have more total tailwheel time, I believe that number will come down a bit when I get my new quote.

[ihab]

Ihab, you also need to consider the value of not having a certified plane. ... I'm a hands on kinda guy, shade tree mechanic, tweaker and wanna be Orville Wright. I absolutely love experimental aviation and the liberties it gives us.

You are, unfortunately, quite correct. I am not and never will be a stick jock -- I am not more coordinated than average, and will never have Top Gun skills in the cockpit. What I love is to build sh*t. If I had a Sonex today, I would be experimenting with my Airball instrument with it, either by patching in air data from a Dynon instrument, or cobbling together my own AoA gages and soldering and drilling and riveting. I have spent many, many hours dreaming of the stuff I would build if I had a plane.

Unfortunately, to do this well requires hangar space. This is the main reason why the Left Coast is so envious of the Heartland contingent. We hate their freedoms and wish to impose our restrictive ideology of $150/mo smarmy tiedowns on them.

Ihab

[ihab]

I would like to encourage you to build your own aircraft.

Thank you for the encouragement Jake. Your reading of my personality and the stuff I like is spot on. This is why I hang out here, after all. :) I will jump on any opportunity which comes up.

Ihab