Newbie Alert: Sonex / Waiex and so many questions

[jjbardell]

Good afternoon,
I wanted to introduce myself to the forum. I am a pilot of 10 years and have decided to take the leap into aircraft ownership. The cost of my club Archer III is now pushing the price of "absurd" and my desire to continue flying has led me to here.

I have a hundred questions, but will start with just a few that some of you may be able to help answer. I have talked to Sonex and plan to fly up there to tour their hanger in the next few months. I am in the early stages of purchase, so I have a little time to get it right.

I have chosen the Sonex/Waiex for all the obvious reasons. 1) price 2) performance 3) light aerobatics 4) efficiency 5) looks.
My type of flying is day/night VFR with 4-5 annual trips of 300-800 miles from home.

I am not sure what model to pick. I am looking at a tail dragger, not tricycle. My wife and I love the looks of the Waiex...I am still adjusting to the idea of a v-tail that performs the "same" as a traditional tail. I would love to build one, but don't have the time or patience (if it was a 100 hour build, I could manage that).

So...with that said...here we go:
1) For anyone who has flown both models...is there truly any flight characteristics I should be aware of?
2) Any professional builders out there that specialize in building these so I can have new without 800 hours gone and a plane I trust (obviously don't trust my build skills. lol)?
3) Sonex doesn't give a recommendation on the motor, but I am struggling to see the difference between the Jab 80hp and Aerovee
4) Does anyone know of the burn rate on the Aerovee turbo?
5) If I buy used, are there experts out there for hire to do a pre-buy with me?
6) Anyone in the west Chicago burbs have one and want to show off your plane/wisdom in exchange for some PilotPete's dinner?
7) Are there any message boards for people looking to do a 50/50 ownership share? - I don't fly a lot and would consider joining an owner in exchange for 1/2 stake.

What are the big ah-ha's I should look out for?

My ideal plane would have auto-pilot, glass cockpit, yellow or chrome, dual controls, the Jab80/Aerovee. There are a few nice looking ones for sale now but I have no desire to have the Jab3300 motor @ 6gph.

Can't wait to learn lots, search this forum, and meet other Sonex owners. Regards, Josh

[Bryan Cotton]

Jake,
Joe reported 5 GPH down to Sebring with the turbo. See this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1705&p=12413#p12413

A pro builder is not really a legal way to go. You could order a quick build kit though and save a bunch of time. Welcome to the forums!

[Stogie6]

There may be a nice Waiex coming up on the market soon. It is down at the Lockhart, TX Muni Airport (50R). The owner is kicking the idea of selling as he is "aging out" of flying - as we all will be one of these days. It is an AeroVee engine, MGL EFIS, transponder (I think) radio and other items that escape my memory. It is not painted. I have seen the plane as I am currently building the Onex there in my father's hangar. Again, it may be coming up soon. This is strictly speculation on my part. The owner has various health related chapters in his life. Do not know what your timeline looks like. I would like to snag it if it does hit the streets, but you look like a decent pilot and seem to be deserving! :D

[gammaxy]

1) For anyone who has flown both models...is there truly any flight characteristics I should be aware of?

I did 3 hours of transition training in the Waiex and now have ~80 hours in the Sonex. I noticed no handling difference. Some have claimed that the Sonex might perform better in high crosswind conditions (10-15mph+ ?), but I don't think the factory agrees.

3) Sonex doesn't give a recommendation on the motor, but I am struggling to see the difference between the Jab 80hp and Aerovee

At my factory tour I think they discouraged the idea of using the Jabiru 2200, but I see they still have it on their website, so it might just be due to the large price difference for little/no increase in performance.

There are a few nice looking ones for sale now but I have no desire to have the Jab3300 motor @ 6gph.

I wouldn't discount the 3300 solely due to the fuel burn. There's no reason you have to operate it at 6gph constantly. I'm pretty happy with my ~4gph Aerovee, but I wouldn't mind bumping up to 6gph for takeoff and some high altitude flights I have in mind. My decision was largely a financial one.

[MichaelFarley56]

Hello Josh,

Welcome to the boards! I'm glad you're here and you have some good questions. I'd be happy to offer my two cents on your questions if you don't mind!

1. Both airplanes really do fly the same. There are a lot of Waiex owners who are cautious in strong crosswinds (myself included); if you do a little searching on here you can find a lot more information on Waiex crosswind capability. Otherwise, they're the same!

2. That would be a violation on the intent and wording of the regulations. We as builders are required to build the "majority" of the airplane if you want it certified as an E-AB airplane. If building isn't your thing that's no problem at all; you can generally find used ones for sale with a little bit of internet searching. For example, www.barnstormers.com normally is an excellent place to start looking.

3. The original Sonex was powered by the Jab 2200 (80 hp) and many builders went with this engine. While I'm not an expert, my guess is that very few people still request this engine anymore. The AeroVee offers the same power at a greatly reduced cost. Also, if you're going to be flying with a passenger on regular occasions, you may run into aft c.g. issues with the Jab 2200. I'd advise the AeroVee or Jab 3300 if you want the higher performance.

4. Anywhere from 5-7 gallons per hour in cruise is my guess. Joe Norris, factory employee and head T-Flight Training instructor recently flew the turbo demonstrator to Florida. As others have already said, he was running at around 5 gallons per hour average.

5. There are a lot of people who would be happy to help you! The Sonex community is a great one and you'll find tons of people willing to help. You can also use most A&P's as the Sonex is a simple, robust design. If you'd like additional information on what to look at when looking over flying airplanes for sale, look over at the Foundation website (www.sonexfoundation.com) for helpful information.

6. Hopefully someone can help you!

7. I'm not sure about this one, but best of luck if that's your goal!

If you have any other questions, please let us know!

[jjbardell]

Wow...that is all I can say.

I heard the Sonex community was friendly and social, but to see these great responses validates what I have heard.

To clarify one point, I was not implying to have a builder build it for me and claim I built it for the E-ABrules. I plan to have my local A&P complete my annuals. As much as I would like to build my own, my work just doesn't afford me any free time to invest in building.

I have been browsing the site and will continue to learn from existing threads.

Thanks everyone and I am sure I'll be reaching out to some of you again.

Stogie6 - Thanks for the tip. I hope I can get the chance to catch it if in fact he chooses to let it go.
Bryan - You are so close to me...perhaps I could meet up with you some time and see your build?

Thanks again everyone. I will look at the burn rate of the 3300 at a 150mph cruise and see how that lines up. If I can get it down to 4.5-5gph and maintain the 150 cruise of the Aerovee, then I could be open. Definitely looks like the 2200 is old news.

My timeline is flexible...but I am getting excited about getting into one for a flight to validate everything I have read.

Cheers, Josh

[gammaxy]

I think you'll find the Aerovee at wide open throttle flies around 135-140mph at ~3000 feet. I know the website claims 150mph at 8000 feet, but I've never seen it and I feel like my Aerovee with Prince 54x46 propeller is a little faster than most. The other day I took it up to 6000 feet for a TAS ~135mph (I flew into and away from the wind at that's about the average of my speeds). I then climbed to 10,000 feet and leveled out at ~110 mph TAS (this time I didn't use GPS to verify, so I'm less confident in the exact number, but I doubt it's off much). At 10,000 feet I was able to climb at ~180fpm (650lbs airplane + 190lbs me + 30lbs kid + 80lbs fuel). All of these numbers were obtained with temperatures around 30-40F at ground level.

I expect the Jabiru and Aerovee to burn pretty close to the same amount of fuel at the same speed in the same airplane. Something would be wrong to burn even .5 extra gph.

[mike.smith]

To clarify one point, I was not implying to have a builder build it for me and claim I built it for the E-ABrules. I plan to have my local A&P complete my annuals. As much as I would like to build my own, my work just doesn't afford me any free time to invest in building.

Unless I'm missing something, it's still not legal. You cannot have someone build more than 49% of it for you, period, even if you are not claiming you were the one that built it. It's an E-AB airplane no matter how you cut it. That means it's built by amateurs "solely for their OWN education or recreation."
http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-comm ... -airplanes
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultr ... ob_aid.pdf

[Sonex1517]

Josh

Welcome to the community.

If you are in Chicagoland I am finishing an AeroVee turbo powered Sonex and you are more than welcome to stop by.

Drop me a PM.

Robbie

[DCASonex]

You mention desire for autopilot and various goodies. These tend to add up to make a heavier plane. Do not overlook the Jabiru or CAMit 3300 engines. If operated to achieve at same cruise airspeed, fuel consumption is near the same as smaller engines, but you will have gobs of power when you want or need it. Have not seen many complaints of having too much power.

David A.