Viking Engine

[kmacht]

Didn't Casey also change out the cowl at one point? I seem to remember him at the Northeast gathering with the original cowl one year and a different one this year. I wouldn't be jumping all over a 7lb difference in reported weights. Lots of things can contribute to it and not all of them engine related.

Keith
#554

[fastj22]

I wouldn't put any emphasis on the weight drop. Too many variables. It would be interesting to see any Viking Sonex come in under 700lbs. He claims the Viking is as light as a Jab3300. We should see numbers confirming that.
My tri-gear Waiex came it at 705lbs. I'll redo the W/B after the conversion to tail wheel. I hope to lose some weight, but who knows.

[daleandee]

I wouldn't put any emphasis on the weight drop. Too many variables. It would be interesting to see any Viking Sonex come in under 700lbs. He claims the Viking is as light as a Jab3300. We should see numbers confirming that.
My tri-gear Waiex came it at 705lbs. I'll redo the W/B after the conversion to tail wheel. I hope to lose some weight, but who knows.

I personally think emphasis on weights on a "testimonial page" are required. When considering an engine package people need correct information. When they were available, people were buying Nilasil sets for $750.00 to save 9 lbs on an Aerovee engine so don't try and convince me that accurate weights for engine purposes are not important.

If this is from a cowling change that should be noted. If it is scale error then I hope Myunn will lose 8 lbs at the next weigh-in and Jan will buy some better equipment for W&B purposes. But we've been through all this before and came to a pretty accurate conclusion (or I so I believe) that the installed weight of a Viking engine is very close to the Corvair conversion. I have a Corvair/Sonex and I know why the battery is in the tail just like the Viking installations. Given the "margin of error" of scale readings we I could argue that the Corvair installation is lighter than a Viking engine install.

See our earlier discussion on this here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=63&start=160#p3910

I do believe that a Viking Sonex can be had for less than 700 lbs but not by much. I believe that a Corvair Sonex can also make it under 700 lbs if built light and without a lot of "creature comforts" that many can't do without.

With your nose wheel appendage removed I believe you will see about a 15 lbs reduction. But ... you'll have that swagger to carry around now! LOL!

FWIW,

Dale Williams
N319WF @ 6J2
Myunn - "daughter of Cleanex"
120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
Tail Wheel - Center Stick
53.2 hours / Status - Flying
http://kitplanes2.com/blog/2013/12/ownerbuilder-2/
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC49h6Qijc17_Ebfz0CbRFtg
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carolinasportflyers/

[kmacht]

With Sebring starting today, anybody there to take pictures of the Viking Sport?

Keith

[kmacht]

From all indications it looks like the Viking Sport didn't make it to Sebring. No reports of it being there and nothing noted anywhere else on the web. The Viking website now says that it will be on display at Sun and Fun.

"The Viking Sport will be on display at the Sun N Fun 2014 airshow. Our example is based on the Waiex airframe. Anyone with a Sonex or Waiex can convert the airplane to a Sport."


Keith

[Goodflight777]

I would like to offer a perspective somewhat different from most appearing here.

Experimental aviation needs as much engine choice as possible. So any viable engine should be welcome. The most important characteristic of an aircraft engine is reliability. Everything else is a distant second, at least if you value your life. So a good question is, what is the reliability of the Viking engine? It is a bit early to fully answer that question, but early indications are encouraging. I haven't read or heard of any accidents or catastrophic failures so far. Of course the Viking engine is based on the Honda Fit engine, itself an excellent engine.

I went up in Cody Lyon's Viking powered Sonex at a fly in, and it was a good experience. The thrust really pushed me back in the seat during the takeoff roll. Although I didn't evaluate the plane in any systematic way, there did not seem to be any serious problems with CG or trim. IMO, these discussions make more of this than warranted. The available power of the engine can overcome wing loading issues with a few more knots of airspeed for example. Jan's re- rigging the wing was probably unnecessary, and a mistake. But that is the nature of experimental development. Surely simpler solutions are possible.

Liquid cooled engines have great potential for reliability because they run MUCH cooler- often 200F cooler. That makes an enormous difference in engine reliability and longevity. That is why the Rotax 912 series is very reliable (and has fully certified versions). That is true, despite squeezing 100hp out of only 82 cu in. Try that with an air cooled engine. That is 1.2hp/cu in. A Jabiru 3300 gets 120hp out of 202cu in. That is only 0.6 hp/cu in. The VW engines get about the same. Yet it still takes heroic efforts at baffling to keep them from overheating. Now, the Viking engine has approximately the same power/cu in as the Rotax. It is liquid cooled completely, with a full water jacket, not just the heads, as with the Rotax. So the thermal stresses and gradients are even less than the Rotax.

An often heard objection to liquid cooling is the extra complexity of radiators, hoses, etc. But I think that is a fallacy: Was the Rolls Royce Merlin unreliable? The Rotax? No. But sure, if you ignore your car engine for 5 years, a hose may break. However, unlike car engines, we inspect aircraft engines constantly, with periodic & preflight inspections, and mandatory maintenance. So any leak or hose issues would be detected long before any serious problem arises. The big advantage of liquid cooling can hardly be overstated. Head warping, burnt valves, glazed cylinders, detonation, damaged rings and blow-by, etc. are virtually eliminated. Many of the air cooled engines constantly have these problems, needing top end work after only a couple hundred hours, or less.

Despite Jan's eccentricities, I think he may have a good product with the Viking engine. But I am afraid so much negative piling-on might prevent the engine from being successful. If we want more engine choices, we should allow the engine to be evaluated on it''s own merits, not on excessive emphasis on personalities. I have no financial interests or personal relationship to Jan, his employees or Viking, but only would like to see this engine succeed and be an option in our experimental aircraft.

[vigilant104]

Despite Jan's eccentricities, I think he may have a good product with the Viking engine. But I am afraid so much negative piling-on might prevent the engine from being successful. If we want more engine choices, we should allow the engine to be evaluated on it''s own merits, not on excessive emphasis on personalities. I have no financial interests or personal relationship to Jan, his employees or Viking, but only would like to see this engine succeed and be an option in our experimental aircraft.

When a person is considering buying a newly developed engine from a company and that company promises support to the customer, then it is natural that the prospective buyer evaluate >everything< involved with the purchase. That would include the technical aspects of the hardware (engine, PSRU, and every other critical element that is attached) and the person/company he is doing business with. The engine is developing a track record, and we should continue to watch it and see how it does. Jan already has a long track record, and there are plenty of former customers available to provide their experiences in this regard. Jan's own actions at present, including his behavior in online forums and his judgement in various developmental endeavors, should also be considered. It's part of the picture, and should be important to anyone considering this engine package.

There are other companies developing Fit conversions, they should also be in the cross-check of anyone considering an alternative engine.

[Goodflight777]

My observation is that Jan bashing has been going on for years. There are entire websites dedicated to that. It's out there for anyone to see, so little more needs to be said. We shouldn't become an never ending echo chamber, and try to be more balanced and objective. Give the guy a chance to get it right this time. The internet is a great magnifier of negative commentary and name calling. It feeds on itself. When Jan is bashed, he digs in further, and the negative spiral continues. Maybe we should lighten up, and just let him do the best he can with the Viking. Yes, of course we should keep an eye on other Honda conversions. We really need good engine options, and should not let emotions undercut the possibility of a new engine becoming available.

[fastj22]

Making restitution to the numerous Subaru conversion buyers who did not receive what they paid for would do a lot to repair his reputation.

[Mike53]

Give the guy a chance to get it right this time. The internet is a great magnifier of negative commentary and name calling. It feeds on itself.

Not a lot of magnification needed here as Fastj22 said, he owes a lot of hard working people there money back.The negative commentary is called for and should continue till restitution is made.
I doubt very much any will ever see there money back .So no I don't think he deserves any slack.
If there is any problems down the road with his conversion I would fully expect him to walk away and leave everyone hanging in the wind.