realistic completion price for B models?

[sjakulski]

Hi folks. I am considering the purchase of a Sonex or Waiex B models. I am a prior Glastar builder. While I note that the Sonex website offers a “completion” cost for their aircraft, I wonder how close it actually is. In my calculations thus far, A sonex B with Aerovee Turbo and a smaller glass panel (such as A GRT 7 or 10 inch, with engine stats, GPS, EFIS, AOA)with comm, with auto-pilot), and backup VSI, Altimeter, and airspeed guages), and other recommended options and accessories is getting up there in total price. Then there is the seating selection (not interested in heated seats) but would like some other choices than Sonex’s one choice, and painting. What are some of your totals with decent but not IFR configurations? Steve

[Gmoney]

I am going through a similar exercise. I believe if you build a basic VFR platform, non turbo you can hit the Sonex number. I refer to it as “base model” now
To fight the urge to upgrade. For me. Turbo is a must. Due to space constraints I will be ordering my kit piece meal. Then the panel. Fortunately it’s a ways off but literally as you mention you can double the price in a heart beat. My plan is simple VFR with a built in IPad. No auto pilot, no electric flaps. Interior will be stock Sonex.

I would like to add the “sliding canopy” and possibly some cool wing tips I found. I at some
Point would like a custom interior.
G


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[racaldwell]

There are so many things to consider in costs that you don't expect ahead of time that makes it hard to forsee an accurate finished cost. For example, Sonex doesn't supply a hardware kit. I bought my hardware kit from ACS but it is far from complete nor accurate. So there will be many small purchases throughout the project. Shipping costs add up. Do you wait and only make one or two purchases a year to group the costs together or do you order as needed and eat the added shipping cost? Do you order lots of extras like wire terminals, heat shrink, wire, etc. ahead of time so you don't have to make small piecemeal orders when you are short four #8 ring terminals for 18 ga. wire? Do you use PPG Concept paint with epoxy primer and prior alodine treatment or do you use Rustoleum rattle cans? My point is there are lots of variables on the costs. I'd say no two projects are alike.

I keep accurate cost tracking on my projects. It is a fact that my Jan. 2000 completed RV-6 with all new parts including a Lycoming O-320 engine & Hartzell CS prop cost me within a couple grand as my 2021 soon to be completed Sonex Xenos motorglider with CAMit 3300 engine, GRT Sport EX w/R66 EIS & LXNAV S100 variometer, GRT 200 comm & used GTX327 transponder.

I recommend buying the best quality products for your project, within reason, to meet your objectives. It is the time commitment that is the real burden of building an airplane. The costs are somewhat spaced out over the building process and are more easily forgotten than the last five years of weekends you have spent making airplane parts.

Rick Caldwell
Xenos 0057

[pappas]

From Sonex's site you have these prices for a Sonex B:
Airframe kit - 24,495 (hardware kit now included, but you will need more)(Also, Electric Flaps are now included in kit cost for a "B")
Engine - choices from $7,600 to $20,000+. (Aerovee non-turbo to Jab and UL options)
Propellor - Ed Sterba-$400 to Prince P-tip $1,600
EFIS - I chose Dynon 10 inch HDX - $4,500
Dynon harnesses and hub, and engine probes, etc $1,000
Radio - $1300
Transponder and ADSB, close to $3,000
Battery - $150 to $350 - Odessy or EarthX
Wire, electrical connectors, Switches, etc, I would figure $500 to be safe.
Upholstery - $10.00 to $1,200. 2 pillows, or heated seats custom fabricated by a local shop. (Or yourself if you can sew)
FWF items like hoses and AN fittings etc- $300?
Shipping - Airframe- $600
Shipping miscellaneous other stuff likely another $300.

We haven't talked about painting or polishing costs, tools that you may need to acquire, intercom, ADAHARS, pitot tube choices, lighting, ELT, and any other thing you may want to make your airplane, "yours".

Totals are likely between $44,000 at the low end and $65,000 if you like your plane loaded up.
If you can fly in your area without a transponder or ADSB, if you are ok with a couple of steam gauges or old first-generation type of glass multi-instrument and a handheld radio wired to a headset, you can probably save a lot of bucks and weight, maybe even meet the Sonex published build and fly price. But, I like my autopilot a lot!
And, I like building but, flyin is funner!!

[Spaceman]

I recently went through all my order histories at places I've bought parts from in an attempt to figure out what I've spent. My plane isn't quite done but I think I've bought pretty much everything, and I figure that in total the plane has/will cost $60k.

I'm building a Waiex-B with Aerovee Turbo and a Garmin G3X panel. Here's a rough breakdown of what I've spent:

Airframe - $23k (bought a few years ago before they started including the hardware kit)
Engine - $13k
Avionics - $10k
Autopilot - $1500
Prop - $1600 (Prince P-tip)
Seats - $1300 (from Sonex)
Misc hardware, electrical supplies, wiring, everything else, etc - somehow roughly $9k!!

Things I could have saved money on:
More minimal Garmin panel - probably $2000
No transponder/ADSB - $3500
Made my own seats - $1000
Cheapest prop from Sonex - $500
No autopilot - $1500
Made less mistakes and ordered less redundant hardware, etc - who knows maybe $2000

So maybe I could have built a similar plane with the same engine for closer to $50k if I really tried. But, I figured if I'm putting all this time and effort in I might as well built it how I want, plus the cost has been spread out over 4+ years so who cares.

I do think the Sonex advertised price is extremely optimistic at like $38k. The airframe + base Aerovee + cheapest prop is at least $34k already so that leaves $4k. The cheapest instrument package from Sonex for an Aerovee is like $1200, and I think at a minimum you'd need an ELT ($500) and a radio (say $1000)... That leaves you $1300 for all of the wiring, a battery, switches for the panel, seats, seatbelts, oh yeah and shipping for ALL of the above! Good luck!

[pappas]

I agree Chris. One could easily spend $50 to $60K to build a plane like yours or mine. But even at that, where can you get a brand new aircraft, with brand new avionics and engine that performs like a Sonex for $50-$60K, and can be flown by a light sport pilot? I don't think you can.

You could always buy a 50 year old Cessna 150, that cruises at 95 mph, with antique 90 pound radios, that might work, with a motor that has 200 hours left to TBO and looks like it was left in a barn for 35 years. Of course the mouse poop under the tattered carpet would be a no cost bonus! By the time you upgrade the avionics to current tech, make it look new, and run like new, you are in it for what we are in our Sonex's for and are still only travelling at 95mpg. OK, maybe 97!

Our hobby costs some money. It just doesn't cost all of the money the way we do it.

[Spaceman]

I totally agree. $60k for a new plane/engine with the latest avionics is not bad at all. Even though it's way more than the factory numbers, it's less than many other options. I live in Texas so a good chunk of my peers have that much in their truck! So even though I've spent more than I originally planned to, I've put the equipment that I want on the plane right off the bat so once it's done I don't think I'll feel much need to continue sinking money into it.

[Rofomoto]

I’ve got about 31k in my plans built A model including a 20k firewall forward. Adsb in and out iPad and steam gauges.

[kmacht]

Could you spend 60k+ building a Sonex, sure but I think you would be crazy to. If you are going to spend that kind of money why not start looking at an RV or other plane with more capability? The advantage of a Sonex used to be its low cost of entry. I built my A model sonex from plans for 15k all in with everything but paint and I guarantee that I have just as much fun when flying it as those who spent 4x that. Granted my build was quite a few years ago and some prices have gone up but you can still easily do it for 20k. Plans building took more time but there wasn’t anything hard about it. I know at least one plans builder that went from plans to flying in under 2 years. You can also put in all sorts of fancy instruments and an expensive panel in the Sonex but you are going to spend very little time looking at them as it is a fly by feel type of plane. Think about your mission for the plane and the type of flying you will do. The sonex will never be a regular cross country commuter plane. It is meant for those VFR days where you just want to go out and do some yanking and banking with the occasional short cross country flight. If you are trying to make it more than that you might be better off looking to see what else is out there that fits your mission better rather than sinking 60k into an airplane trying to make it something it wasn’t intended to be.

Keith
#554

[sjakulski]

Thanks all for your total cost responses. once one starts getting over, say, 55k one could choose to build something with more versatility if a mind to it would seem. That is, general aviation experimental category vs LSA. That is why I wondered about realistic cost. Does a sonex resale see a decent return on costs (not that many homebuilts do...certainly not on labor)? Of course, look at the prices of production LSA’s, and the preference or need to fly LSA category. So, them that 60k may not seem unreasonable... :)