A Whiny Question

[WesRagle]

Hi Guys,

So, Summer temps have arrived in north central Texas. As I type this it's 11:17 A.M., 89 deg. forecast high of 95 today. Forecast highs go to 100 by next Tuesday. The only good time to fly is early morning. I went out to KMWL early this morning to collect some tools to take to KONY where I intend to fly off the first 20 hours on the Onex. As per usual this time of year the wind was out of the south east making 13 the preferred runway. Now, all of the instrument approaches into MWL are from the south into runway 31. Seems every single instrument student form the DFW metroplex comes to Mineral Wells to practice. This morning it was worse than I remembered it. A steady stream of missed approaches on runway 31.

Now the whiny question. How is a VFR pilot supposed to deal with this? I mean it's clear blue and a million, winds right down 13, and all these guys are flying missed instrument approaches on 31.

Wes

[Rynoth]

How is a VFR pilot supposed to deal with this?

Wes

CTAF. Announce your intentions. Aircraft on final have the right of way but a few (polite) words on the radio might go a long way.

[WesRagle]

Hi Ryan,

CTAF. Announce your intentions. Aircraft on final have the right of way but a few (polite) words on the radio might go a long way.

Yea, of course. I always do but some of these guys feel like they own the runway from the time they leave the hold until they go missed. That takes 4 or 5 minutes and then the next guy starts down the pike. And it feels kind of like playing chicken when a guy is coming down the approach and you''re taking off. I guess it's best to wait until someone is just leaving the hold and make a call and go. It's easy to stay low and turn a tight crosswind before they get there. It just seems like an inherently unsafe situation. I can deal with'em. And once I'm in the pattern they just have to deal with me.

I'm just whining. I wish they would go play in their own back yard.

I'll study this some more:
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_90-66b.pdf

Wes

[Rynoth]

You're definitely not wrong and I totally get what you're saying... something to keep in mind is that fact that in most cases (especially on good weather days) those training aircraft are operating under VFR as well. Even if they are IFR, they'd still need to coordinate with VFR traffic at the airport via the CTAF in Class G/E airspace. IFR aircraft don't have any sort of "bonus" right of way over VFR aircraft in Class G/E airspace. Flying an practice instrument approach in VFR is no different than calling a 5-10 mile final in VFR. Either way if they’re screwing up the natural traffic flow/best wind runway, I’d call it rude.

Right of way rules:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.113

Definition of Final IFR approach segment:
http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-6 ... a%20missed

I looked at the approach charts and found the following distances from the end of the runway 31 at KMWL for the final approach fix for each:
GPS Approach 3.6 NM
ILS Approach 4.6 NM
VOR Approach 4.0 NM (MQP VOR)

Basically, if they are inside of a 5-mile final it's probably not a great idea to depart head-to-head with them. If they are still in a hold or outside 5 miles it should be OK if communicating on CTAF. Make your presence known on CTAF (and why, i.e. winds on the runway) and if they're not jerks you'll probably find in most cases they will accommodate you. If not, maybe have a chat with the airport manager to make your concerns known. Chances are you won't be the first person to mention it and maybe they can raise some stink about it.

[WesRagle]

Hi Ryan,

I'll try not to get an attitude before I even start flying from there. There is really nothing that I can do to fix it. The days I'll be flying will be VFR and the prime directive of see and avoid reign supreme. Everyone is expected to mix with the "normal" flow of traffic and that means landing into the wind and left traffic pattern.

BTW, I did talk to the airport manager this morning and just to make things a little worse, there will be no more support for maintaining 17/35 due to "wind studies'. All paved surfaces at the airport are due for resurface starting next week, except 17/35. The managers claim is that the decision not to fund that runway was based only on statistical wind direction and velocity with no consideration of actual runway usage.

Wes

[GraemeSmith]

Ryan covers it.

Just to re-emphasise.

An IFR approach in VRF does not confer any magical rights on the IFR aircraft - whether the approach is for real or for practice. If the airport is VFR - the IFR aircraft has to fall in line with whatever VFR operations are taking place.

Their clearance from the controller almost certainly includes the words "no separation services provided, maintain VFR".

Same problem here on the LOC22 at KUUU - Newport. I feel for your airport manager - because as our airport manager points out - he runs the airport surface - not the airspace. They can't do a lot about it.

Different approach sorry - couldn't resist the pun - if it's getting excessive. A call to the local schools reminding them of their VFR obligations might not be out of place. CFI's can "go missed" earlier in the process and not end up in the pattern disrupting VFR traffic - which they should not be doing anyway. And a call to he manager of your local ATC facility that is controlling their practice approaches can help. Our local TRACON upped the emphasis of the practice approach clearance a bit "Numerous VFR targets in the vicinity of XXX, no separation services provided, maintain VFR". It is still the standard phraseology - text on the screen can't convey the added a bit of weight controllers put on it to make the CFI remember that it's not just a routine mantra and that they have other obligations.

I also have another brief click I add on the radio when they come barreling in on the approach sounding all important on the radio:

Them - "AIRPORT traffic, N1234 on a practice approach to runway XX at WAYPOINT"

Me - "Hey N1234 - for the VFR pilots in the pattern here at AIRPORT and who have no idea where your IFR WAYPOINT is - want to clarify where you are that so we don't meet in the same bit of airspace." It's a perfectly reasonable request and a reminder to them of their obligations.

[GordonTurner]

In my opinion you are not required to yield anything to an aircraft practicing an instrument approach, or flying an instrument approach to a runway they don’t intend to land on. Announce “departing runway XX for left closed traffic/crosswind departure to the south” etc and go. Since they aren’t landing it is their responsibility to separate from aircraft in the pattern. If you haven’t spotted them, ask them to report distance from the runway and intentions.

The aircraft practicing the approach can easily offset left or right from the runway for their missed. Suggest that to them if it seems advised.

Gordon

[WesRagle]

Hi Guys,

I'll get along with the other traffic. Like I said, I'm just whining about something there is no solution for. Usually "Mineral Wells area traffic, experimental xxx taking active 13 for straight out departure" thins the ILS traffic :-) Seriously, I'll work with them as long as they work with me.

Wes

[Rynoth]

Usually "Mineral Wells area traffic, experimental xxx taking active 13 for straight out departure" thins the ILS traffic :-)

Since we're on the subject of CTAF radio calls, I felt this was relevant:

"When referring to a specific runway, pilots should use the runway number and not use the phrase “Active Runway,” because there is no official active runway at a non-towered airport."

From https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/med ... 90-66b.pdf

Wes, I actually don't have a issue with how you'd phrase your radio call since you included the actual runway number. It's just that "active" doesn't really have a place on a CTAF freq. I'm also the type of person that corrects people that type "your" instead of "you're" and one of my biggest pet peeves is when pilots say "Roger" when what they meant was "Wilco"

[WesRagle]

Hi Ryan,

"When referring to a specific runway, pilots should use the runway number and not use the phrase “Active Runway,” because there is no official active runway at a non-towered airport."

I know but... How would you phrase it to give anyone who happens to be listening the hint that conditions are VFR and the winds favor runway 13 and you intend to use that runway?

Wes