Trump Calls for Privatizing Air Traffic Control Operations

[NWade]

Probably a good idea to have the moderators lock this thread before it spirals out of control. Regardless of our opinions of Trump or Congress, we don't have enough information at this time to have a productive discussion about the situation. We've gotten a heads-up that this is coming down the pike, its good to be aware that its hovering on the horizon, and now we remain vigilant until we have pertinent details...

--Noel

[fastj22]

I was promised I'd get tired of winning. I think I've reached that point.

[mike.smith]

I'm not sure there is actually a large effect on sports flying.

Except that many of us like to get flight following (advisories), even on relatively short trips. How much will that cost us?

[mike.smith]

We had a safety seminar tonight and the presenter was in the UK via Skype. He started off by giving us the ATC fees he paid this past weekend while trying to stay current and proficient. His point was how do you afford to stay current and proficient paying these kinds of fees?

$15 Wx brief
$25 Touch and Go
$50 landing fee (full stop landing)
$75 IFR approach
$75 IFR missed approach/go-around

Total cost = $240, and that was without the airplane rental and fuel

[WaiexN143NM]

Hi all,
I think it would be the end of the worlds leading and great atc system.ALPA even admitted to licking their chops to be in control. The airline mgmt and union mgt want to get their hands on the con. Most of my still working controller buddies are against this. Im sure many airline pilots may not be in favor of turning over control to the wizards that run their airlines.
We have a long standing tradition of training controllers in the military, many moving on to the faa. The CTI program numbers about 30 colleges now for 2 or 4 yr degree in atc.
The contract twr program with faa oversight is provided by 4 contract companies thru the faa. These are smaller airports with towers, some of you may fly out of. These towers are staffed by about a third of the staffing a faa tower would have. Use caution, sometimes these towers can get overloaded, and only one person is working all the positions. Ground , local, clearance delivery /flight data. Twr phone ringing, twr door buzzer going off, airport ops calling on grnd freq for something. A couple tragic accidents come to mind, one in frederick md. Between a cirrus and a helicoptor. Another in brown field in san diego between a c-172 and a sabreliner. And others, but what caused these accidents was the controller working all positions in tower, overloaded, task saturated, and didnt have time time to look , focus, and SEPERATE the aircraft. You can bet that a board running this atc corp. would be more fiscal in running the operation skinny. Watch the smithsonian or discovery channel on airline crashes from years ago. Atc is partly to blame in some of these tragic events. Throw in foreign crews, english as a second langage, fatigue, weather , and a toxic brew is cooking.
We dont need to reinvent the wheel. Weve got the best thing going now. It does need some tweaking. What would help is a steady funding stream (no more sequesters, hiring freezes, govt shutting down) hiring, training. Fees like mike stated above would be the norm. Watch what you wish for. The biggest issue in my 33 year atc career that started in 1980 was short staffing. Sadly when i retired in 2013, the biggest issue was lack of staffing.
Some good reading avbl. On this subject on http://www.avweb.com
Also , i see no reason to lock this thread. Its been civil and engaging, and truthful. Please share your thoughts.
WaiexN143NM
Michael

[fastj22]

The last time this was floated, it was estimated that it would cost $100 to file a flight plan. One can only assume there would be a fee for any other ATC service like flying VFR into and out of a charlie or delta airport. Smaller towered airports would probably lose their towers due to low profits. Especially if GA pilots avoid them to save some money. How about landing fees at any airport that receives federal funds?
But there's a big push to privatization. Prisons, healthcare, highways, bridges, etc.

[vwglenn]

$25 Touch and Go
I already got my 2 landings this month
$50 landing fee (full stop landing)
I have just enough fuel to make it to my destination. Who needs VFR reserves?
$75 IFR approach
Meh...I think I can see the airport.
$75 IFR missed approach/go-around
Told you I could see the airport.

[A10snoopy]

This opinion piece from Aviation Week is interesting reading:
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... faa11afa7e

Paul
OneX 76

[airscribe]

Buyer beware is, to my mind, the most-appropriate watchword on the A4A/ALPA/Rep. Shuster proposal to remove ATC from the FAA and put under the control of a board dominated by A4A and ALPA....that's Airlines for America and the Air Line Pilots Association.

The last several times the airlines and Shuster -- a congressman from Pennsylvania -- floated their plan, they tried to work a divide-and-conquer angle: GA below a certain weight would be exempt and continue to pay fuel excise taxes...but without Congressional oversight to protect GA's access...and with no guarantee that the exemption would be permanent. So we have one privately run system in Canada that treats GA well -- and another in the U.K. that drives citizens to come here to the U.S. because the ATC fees involved in learning to fly make coming to the U.S., paying air fare, meals, housing and instruction because it's less expensive.

And one more item to weigh: In all the years the airlines have sought this change never once have they put out any economic data to support their claims...no cost projections, no explanation of how they could make the system better, more efficient, safer and at what costs. Personally, my reaction to the "Trust me!" approach ranks up there with the guy who prefaces the end of his life with the words, "Hold my beer and watch this!"

In the words of one president, "Trust but verify." And so far the proponents offer no verification data...just "Trust us."

Offered without an oversized emoji...

[vigilant104]

Lots of opinions, very little to go on. Much depends on how any change is structured. "Privatization" could mean anything from continued FAA oversight and management with contracted operations (towers, centers, etc), to a non-profit calling the shots (i.e. Canadian model) to a handover of everything to a private company that wins the bid on a recurring basis.
There's no reason to link privatization to a change in funding of ATC sevices (from fuel taxes and passenger ticket taxes to the user fees that seem to be the favorite scary spectre that is bandied about. "It will cost $15 to fly a pattern, even if you never talk to ATC."). The government could (and may) continue to collect the taxes and use the funds to buy the ATC services. If so, no user fees.
Would any private entity have taken this long to get ADSB in the field? Is there a good, non-bureaucratic reason why ADSB-out can't be accomplished far more cheaply than the present method (i.e. if this is the way of the future, and if it is so beneficial for safety and efficiency, and if the actual in-airplane hardware is so much cheaper and more reliable than the old transponder technology, what is keeping the installed price of the gear so high?)
Let's see the actual proposal before getting all frothed up.