Aerovee Opinion

[kevinh]

Hi ya'll,

So I built an RV7A from 2002 to 2005 (with a CS prop). And then loved flying it till about 2013 due to some life changes (travel) I sold it. But I'm now getting the building bug again and considering building a Waiex (easier to fit in a hangar) or a Xenos (I like gliders). I'm leaning in this direction because:
[*] I like recreational aerobatics
[*] I found that I rarely used the cross country abilities of my RV and I don't mind for those few cases getting there a little slower with some more breaks
[*] A downside for the Sonex is that aerobatics would be no passenger (but if I kinda squint I can think of it like a RV3+)
[*] Building the turbo aerovee sounds fun
[*] I'll be flying seasonally (out of town in fall and spring), so I could remove the wings and take up less space in a shared hangar

Are there former RV builders here who can compare what it is like to fly a Sonex to fly or build a RV? Any feedback would be appreciated...

[SvingenB]

Regarding flying I have too little experience in both to say something informative. The Sonex behaves similar to an RV in the air though. I am half way through building a RV-4 and almost finished a Onex (hope to fly it this year). The Onex is a factor 10 faster to built compared with the -4, I have the pre-fabricated angle option. But, the -4 is also a factor 10 more work than the newer CAD/prefab -7/-8 etc.

The one single thing I don't like about the Onex, is the Aerovee. The engine kit is a complete mess. Not difficult or anything, but essentially overpriced off the shelf, unbranded and untagged "junk" sold for the same price or higher than the highest quality premium parts. Lots of modding and replacement of parts is necessary to get something you want to fly behind. If I were to do it again, I would go for a A Revmaster, Hummel or Sauer, or Great Plains if I wanted to build an engine. If you want 100 HP, get a Rotax 912 or a ULPower.

[markschaible]

Opinions are as varied as builders.

When words like "junk," "overpriced," "unbranded," "untagged" (what does that mean?) are tossed about, and accompanied by the recommendation to use a competitor's product (apparently everyone else is doing this engine thing better than us), we are usually fortunate enough to have both sides of the story. Unfortunately this message's intended audience may not.

We confidently fly the same parts we sell. We'll let our AeroVee fleet record, and our support of that fleet, speak for itself.

Speaking on-behalf of all of us here at Sonex, Kevin, we encourage you to continue querying a larger sampling of our customer base and please don't hesitate to contact us here at the factory with your questions as-well.

Regards,
-Mark

--
Mark Schaible
General Manager
Sonex Aircraft, LLC
phone: 920-231-8297
fax: 920-426-8333
http://www.SonexAircraft.com
http://www.AeroConversions.com

Sales Info: sales@sonexaircraft.com
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Accounting: accounting@sonexaircraft.com
Tech Support: tech@sonexaircraft.com

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[Gripdana]

I flew my Areovee powered Sonex for the first time yesterday. It performed very good. As far as the kit goes the build was easy to do. All the parts were well marked and matched. All the Aero conversions parts fit very good. It is very clear that Sonex has done their homework on making the kit a complete package. I like the fact that I got to build the engine as it gives me better insight to maintaining it. The Aeroinjector was easy to tune. I followed the instructions exactly. The price point for the package is right on the mark considering the amount of R & D that goes into getting a product like this on the market.

[SvingenB]

When words like "junk," "overpriced," "unbranded," "untagged" (what does that mean?)

It is straight forward really, everyday engineering tasks. The crankshaft and the shrink fit hub relies on the production and material quality of the shaft. When this is unbranded without as much as a single digit or letter on it, then what is it? what is it made of, who has made it, where is it made? I have no idea.


Also

We confidently fly the same parts we sell. We'll let our AeroVee fleet record, and our support of that fleet, speak for itself.

This is not true. You change parts, vendors, products on a continuous basis. You (someone at Sonex) specifically told me so. The engines built 4-5 years ago have different parts than those built today. I wanted conrods of the type you had before. I was told you recently had changed them for another type.

[Sonex1517]

So what in your first and subsequent post justify stating the engine is junk? Overpriced? A complete mess?

I would like to hear facts to back that up.

The AeroVee has aftermarket VW parts. No doubt. But junk?

Please present some facts. Otherwise as previously stated here and in other threads, each builder has their own experience and opinion. Bring on the data please.

[radfordc]

The one single thing I don't like about the Onex, is the Aerovee. The engine kit is a complete mess. Not difficult or anything, but essentially overpriced off the shelf, unbranded and untagged "junk" sold for the same price or higher than the highest quality premium parts. Lots of modding and replacement of parts is necessary to get something you want to fly behind. If I were to do it again, I would go for a A Revmaster, Hummel or Sauer, or Great Plains if I wanted to build an engine. If you want 100 HP, get a Rotax 912 or a ULPower.

Having a bad day? Or are you just always crabby?

[SvingenB]

I would like to hear facts to back that up.

The AeroVee has aftermarket VW parts. No doubt. But junk?

You know. It is not my responsibility to back up anything. I am a customer. From an engineering point of view, every part that is void of vendor markings, void of numbers, void of documents, void of anything that can identify what the item is, what it is made of and who made it - is nothing but junk. VW parts are marked with VW, AN bolts are marked with an X etc. Aftermarket parts from respectable manufacturers are also marked with their trade names.

The situation is; Someone is selling something they call quality parts. Some of those parts, some of the most essential parts like crankshaft and conrods have nothing they can be identified with. They are void of numbers and names. Now, are those parts good or bad? I have no idea. No one will have any idea. There is a good chance that they really are quality parts, but in which universe is it my responsibility to back that up with facts? Any engineer will look at them and say - scrap metal.

Besides, I am free to recommend anything I want. I have paid Aeroconversions to supply me with parts for an engine. I have not paid them to become part of their cheerleader group. I also said; If I were to do it again, then I ... In no way have I said the grass actually is better on the other side, only that I am not very impressed with the Aerovee-grass as it was delivered to my doorstep, and would have chosen differently if I knew up front.

The Onex kit on the other hand - superb.

[MichaelFarley56]

Okay, enough. This thread has drifted way off the original question and it's no longer helpful. Kevin, if I may, having flown in both Sonexes as well as RV-6 and -6A's, I can tell you that the handling qualities are very similar. Control forces are very similar, and the "yank and bank" enjoyment is off the charts on either design!

Your list of pro's and con's is an excellent list and you're pretty much hitting the nail on the head. RV's are fast, efficient, and beautiful airplanes but if you're looking for something that's fun to fly but more economical, easier and cheaper to build, and LSA capable it's hard to beat a Sonex/Waiex. I have often told perspective builders that if you're fine with 80% of the size and performance of an RV at only 50% of the cost and build time, go Sonex!

I'm going to lock this but if anyone has any thoughts that actually relate to Kevin's question, let me know and I'll post them.