Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Discussion of the Aerovee kit engine.

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby Sonex570 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:51 pm

"There are alot of very accomplished people on the forum. Professionals who are engineers by trade, techie types who have great minds to ask these tech questions or offer advice, to help you be successful"

I am scratch building Sonex 570 and I couldn't even begin to tell you how hard it would be to design this aircraft with NO plans, even with the plans their are times I have to really study the plans, look at other builders pictures and occasionally send a request into tech support for guidance, although this is not related to the turbo issue, I am amazed by John and other designers that can take a bunch of aluminum and make such a robust, strong air-frame and other components(ie turbo)with common hand tools and turn them into great plans for the average Joe. John keep up the great work and innovations and keep that fire burning!
N570SX
Center Stick TD
120HP Corvair STEEL-X
1956 PA22-150
1999 CGS Hawk Arrow
CX4 Trigear (Aerovee with GP Crank)
Sky Cycle trike
Gyrocopter
Pittsburgh PA
Sonex570
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:37 am

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby rizzz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:07 pm

John Monnett wrote:
WaiexN143NM wrote:Hi all, john,

Your comments directed at your customer base are over the top. Do you realize the damage you are doing to your brand? Comments alledging a lack of knowledge, or experience , a nefarious agenda, or being ignorant. Wow. There are alot of very accomplished people on the forum. Professionals who are engineers by trade, techie types who have great minds to ask these tech questions or offer advice, to help you be successful . You asked for civility yourself in an earlier post. You disregarded your own request. At 75 i doubt you are going to change. Maybe it would be best if Mark S. Responded to the forum. I cant even imagine Van on the vans site, one of the Heintz family on the zenith site, John McBean on the kitfox site, would respond to their customers with this kind of outburst directed to their customers. I would expect the kitplane mfgr to be classy and professional
Please consider what i have said.


Michael,
I am indeed sorry you were offended by my comments and how you took those remarks personally! Regardless, we (Sonex) get comments constantly about the handful of posters who are exactly how I portrayed them and how others express frustration with them to the point of leaving the list. The vast, vast majority of our customers are great, respected, offer valuable ideas and support for what the Sonex community is all about. We do all in our power to serve and satisfy them. For those very few that just spout off, give their uninformed opinion, lead the conversation astray, complain about problems without contacting Sonex first and have nothing positive to contribute (you should know who the are) I will continue to call them out.


John,
When you accused me of having "lack of experience", it was in a direct response to my post where I made great effort to explain in high detail what my "experience" was with such fans and why I thought it would be relevant in your application.

Now if you're going to accuse me of having "nothing positive to contribute" or have some sort of malicious "agenda" towards your brand, please consider the following:
- I have a website dedicated to building my Sonex,
- I have a YouTube channel entirely dedicated to building testing and flying my Sonex,
- I am a long time and quite active member of this forum and the one before it on Yahoo, I help people actively where I can, I share experience and yes, I'm also critical at times,
- I am president of our local SAAA (Australian version of EAA) chapter and when it was time to do the W&B on my Sonex, I turned that into a "workshop" for our and nearby SAAA chapters, plenty of people showed up, at least one of which is also on this forum,
- When I completed Phase 1 testing of my Sonex, again I held a workshop for local SAAA chapters with videos, slides and lots of documentation.

All of this is great promotion of your brand! You cannot just go out and make such accusations of malicious agendas or having nothing positive to contribute. You don't know me!
May I remind you as well John this is called a "discussion forum" for a reason. We can discuss things here and we don't all have to agree all the time. As long as we remain "civil" as you say, so if your response is that the fan failing is no big deal because cooling is still adequate, just say so and we can discuss further. Why the insults or personal attacks?
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
http://www.mykitlog.com/rizzz/
rizzz
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 am
Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby John Monnett » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:37 am

Michael,

"John Monnett wrote:
that is the number one reason that at nearly 75 I am still involved at the heart of this endeavor but continue to marvel at armchair "experts" that have to express their opinions on this forum regardless of their knowledge, experience, agenda or just plain ignorance."

I am sorry you misunderstood my comments about a "hand full of posters". I believe you took it as a personal attack probably because it was awkwardly placed in my response post. I was trying to convey to you and the members of this group the frustration felt by myself and my team at Sonex about such posters described above that post with impunity. The comment should have been made in separate post so as to not confuse the issues.
In no way was this comment directed at you an accusal, a criticism of you, or a demeaning of your efforts and contributions. Of course you are a very valued and appreciated member of the Sonex family. I again apologize!
We will however, find a better way to test the fan than flying in foggy and rainy conditions. ;)
John Monnett
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:27 am

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby NWade » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:33 pm

I was thinking and researching the fan stuff a bit last night, and have a couple of brief armchair (said with my tongue planted in my cheek) comments on the Fan & moisture susceptibility:

There is a standard called "IP" ("intrusion protection") that some manufacturers adhere to. Wikipedia has a good breakdown of what the ratings mean. If I'm understanding it correctly, something like an "IP55" rated (or NEMA 4 enclosure) fan is probably good-enough for our application. The catch is that a lot of smaller fans (like 120mm computer cooling fans) are manufactured in China and the ratings that are claimed may not be legitimate, so it would be important to find a reputable brand who's testing/IP-rating claims can be trusted.

As for testing - One could use a small sprayer (such as that used for spraying weed killer or pesticide) to wet the fan & radiator down with water, let it sit for awhile, then perform ground runs or a test cell; with some repetition over the course of several days to see if corrosion starts to build up or anything shorts out. Alternatively, one could zip-tie a garden misting system to the engine mount or other FWF structure near the radiator/fan, and have it emitting a spray during engine runs. Of course both of these methods have the potential to cause damage to electronics and/or create a big mess; so its has to be assembled and tested with care - I wouldn't expect anyone to run out and make this happen over a weekend!

Finally, its important to remember that everything on our aircraft corrodes or wears-out over time. Replacing a $10 part every 5 years is arguably better than finding a $200 part that lasts 15-20... Its about risk mitigation, not risk elimination. :-)

--Noel
NWade
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:58 pm

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby rizzz » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:50 pm

John Monnett wrote:Michael,

"John Monnett wrote:
that is the number one reason that at nearly 75 I am still involved at the heart of this endeavor but continue to marvel at armchair "experts" that have to express their opinions on this forum regardless of their knowledge, experience, agenda or just plain ignorance."

I am sorry you misunderstood my comments about a "hand full of posters". I believe you took it as a personal attack probably because it was awkwardly placed in my response post. I was trying to convey to you and the members of this group the frustration felt by myself and my team at Sonex about such posters described above that post with impunity. The comment should have been made in separate post so as to not confuse the issues.
In no way was this comment directed at you an accusal, a criticism of you, or a demeaning of your efforts and contributions. Of course you are a very valued and appreciated member of the Sonex family. I again apologize!
We will however, find a better way to test the fan than flying in foggy and rainy conditions. ;)


Thanks John,
I'm sorry this whole thing got as far out of hand as it did.
Happy we can move on :-)
Cheers,
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
http://www.mykitlog.com/rizzz/
rizzz
 
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 am
Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby DCASonex » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:30 am

John, Mark,
Frustrating as it may be I am glad to see your participation in this forum. If the folks at Jabiru had paid attention to their customers, Jabiru engines would still be a major force in the market and there would have been no need or opportunity for CAMit. Now Jabiru is a minor player and with the loss of CAMit, they have also had to rebuild a production a facility from scratch. They at least have seemed to learn a bit from their fiasco, hope they do not soon forget.
David A. Sonex TD, CAMit 3300.
DCASonex
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: Western NY USA

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby rick9mjn » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:01 pm

this is worth repeating;
John, Mark,
Frustrating as it may be I am glad to see your participation in this forum.
.......also thanks from me ,about your participation.
thanks again,good day ,rick
rick9mjn
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:51 am
Location: northern ill.

Re: Siezed low-time neglected turbocharger

Postby WaiexN143NM » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:25 pm

Hi john,
Thanks for the clarification from your posts. Thanks for recognizing the talents of this group.
Thanks for working diligently with your staff to come up with a fix for the turbo.
When i meet people from this group of sonex enthusiats, im amazed how sharp, smart, resourceful, knowledgable, talented they are.
Yes this is a discussion group. We all dont have to agree. We can agree to disagree. People pass on knowledge from their life experiences. And as always there is more way than one to accomplish something.
Please take rizz's(and pauls) suggestions to the fan type. (Best to use a auto radiator type ) . Otherwise the tribe will go crazy again. Emails, phone calls, tech support getting more gray hair. , RMA's , shipping fees, back ordered fans, more shipping fees, and planes sitting on the ground.
I apologize for not responding sooner. Been very busy.
Hi to all the sonex staff, and your lovely wife betty.

WaiexN143NM
Michael
WaiexN143NM
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:04 am
Location: SF CA, Tucson AZ

Previous

Return to Aerovee

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: wlarson861 and 2 guests