Rotax 9 Oil Hose

[Skippydiesel]

Skippy Diesel,

I highly recommend that you join Rotax-Owner.com to help you get some answers. There is plenty of legitimate and Rotax endorsed information there. I gave you advice on oil hoses but you chose to go in a different direction. There is very limited informed advice on this Sonex builders group here because right now there are so few Sonex aircraft with Rotax engines flying.

Jake

Thank you for your Rotax Owner forum recommendation - I will certainly follow that up.

As for your "advice on oil hoses" there was none other than your purchase of " teflon oil hose with integral fire sleeve" from Aircraft Speciality. You gave no rational for this decision or answered my question on the same.

Sonex/Rotax may be a small percentage of the fleet in the USA but are growing in popularity internationally.

[Skippydiesel]

There must be quite a few R9-series engines in the Sonex by now!

This Sonex A #0525 operator has the Rotax recommended oil hose between tank, cooler and pump. So far everything works as advertised. After 15 years behind a Jab, fretting about all that could go wrong, I decided that enough was enough and again get back into some relaxed flying. Hence I left the experimental engine work and component delection to those in the know and with the facilities to test their findings. I am just happy to follow in their wake- and sod the costs!

Maybe, if you have to ask what original spares cost, a R9- series is not for you after all.

Thx

Kai - Your attitude suggests your pockets may be lined with gold, so why are you flying a Sonex, very much the cheaper end of the recreational aircraft world ?

Sonex is the epitome of experimental aircraft, a movement / philosophy that encourages innovative thinking - your suggestion would seem to be more in line with certified factory built aircraft. Perhaps you you would feel more at home in a Cessna/Piper/etc. You would have no choice other than to purchase all service/repair items at the dealers price and then have them installed by a LAIM or other approved service providers and "sod the cost!".

Oil hose, fuel hose, coolant hose and a host of other items (meeting / exceeding Rotax specifications) can be found at much more competitive pricing than from Rotax - if you want to waste your dollars - go for it.

[SonexN76ET]

Unfortunately I have found if a person chooses a Rotax engine it turns out to be expensive in many ways. I have spent around $30,000 USD on replacing my trusty AeroVee with the Rotax 912 ULS. I am using all new Rotax approved components with the exception of a custom exhaust required due to using the Sonex engine mount.

Here are the approximate major costs:

Engine $20,000

Propeller, spinner, & extension $2,500

Exhaust $2,000

Oil lines and fuel return line and return line restrictor $600

Radiator, hoses, clamps & mounts $500

Oil cooler $200

Fiberglass & materials for radiator ducting and cowling modification $ 300

Sonex Rotax mount & hardware $2000

Throttle and choke cables and throttle quadrant $600

Keyed ignition switch $200

MGL temperature probes for Rotax $200

Cabin heat $400

Carb heat (coolant heated) $400

Boost pump, pump bypass & check valve $200

Capacitor & wiring & battery cables $150

Hardware, clamps, misc $1,000

May be a few other things as well.

Jake

[SonexN76ET]

Skippy Diesel,

The reason I went with the Teflon oil lines is due to longer service life. On the non Teflon lined fuel and oil hoses Rotax requires replacement every five years.

Jake

[Skippydiesel]

Skippy Diesel,

The reason I went with the Teflon oil lines is due to longer service life. On the non Teflon lined fuel and oil hoses Rotax requires replacement every five years.

Jake

Thanks Jake - I would be interested to hear how the cost, at time of purchase and over projected service life, of your Teflon hoses compares with, say Gates Barricade Fuel Injection (which I use) or Barricade Carburation (also perfectly adequate).

[Skippydiesel]

Unfortunately I have found if a person chooses a Rotax engine it turns out to be expensive in many ways. I have spent around $30,000 USD on replacing my trusty AeroVee with the Rotax 912 ULS. I am using all new Rotax approved components with the exception of a custom exhaust required due to using the Sonex engine mount.

Here are the approximate major costs:

Engine $20,000 - Don't know where you live - the price would suggest USA. If this is the going rate, well that's what it is. I assumed you shopped around for the best deal.

Propeller, spinner, & extension $2,500 - Most aircraft have a spinner but why the extension?

Exhaust $2,000 - "Custom exhaust required due to using the Sonex engine mount". You have either been misled or misinformed. My Sonex /Rotax 912ULS with standard Sonex mount & Rotax adapter easily accommodates a standard Rotax exhaust.

Oil lines and fuel return line and return line restrictor $600 -I think you will find most aircraft engines will use fuel & oil lines to some degree. The cost seems unusually high in your case. Perhaps you were unware of the alternative reputable manufactures/suppliers of hose that easily meets the Rotax specifications.

Radiator, hoses, clamps & mounts $500 - Yeah a Rotax radiator is costly however ordinary automotive hose, from a reputable manufacturer, is more than adequate. You may have to do some reserch to find the correct profile (bends) for your application. As for clamps, again automotive clamps with rolled edges & inside sleeve to minimise the change of damaging the hose construction, are my proffered style.

Oil cooler $200 - Doesn't seem to be an outrageous price. You did shop around? You are ware that Rotax have 3 sizes on offer?

Fiberglass & materials for radiator ducting and cowling modification $ 300 - Well done looks like you did well in this area

Sonex Rotax mount & hardware $2000 - All engines will need a mounting system - just the way it is

Throttle and choke cables and throttle quadrant $600 - See above - you have to have some way of communicating with your engine

Keyed ignition switch $200 - Why? A keyed master switch from your local auto or electronics store, would have been much cheaper and achieved all the security you need. Then have one ordinary switch for each ignition

MGL temperature probes for Rotax $200 - Your choice

Cabin heat $400 - Well if you live in a cold climate this might just be considered essential. Here is Australia, even in winter, there is enough heat from the engine side of the firewall to keep the cockpit pretty comfortable even when OAT is way below freezing.

Carb heat (coolant heated) $400 - My Sonex/Rotax also has these (fitted by the first builder). My last Rotax powered aircraft had no carburettor heat of any kind. In flight cowling air temperatures, (carby intake air) were a consistent 10C above OAT, effectively reducing the chance of icing to close to 0. There was probably a slight reduction in engine performance but I never noticed. In 10 years and about 600 hrs + of flying, I never experienced carby ice. I am not completely convinced that these down stream air warmers are truly effective therefore cost effective.

Boost pump, pump bypass & check valve $200 - Yet to find a low wing aircraft that does not have a boost pump. Just part of the cost of flying. As for the rest - what are they for?

Capacitor & wiring & battery cables $150 - Don't know if this is a high/low cost but you certainly need them

Hardware, clamps, misc $1,000 - Wow! seems a tad steep & more clamps?

May be a few other things as well.

Jake

[SonexN76ET]

Skippy,

I have a tri gear and a bottom mounted radiator hence it did not appear that the stock Rotax exhaust would fit when I was ordering my components originally two years ago.

As for the prop extension perhaps you should consult the Sonex website where it states a prop extensio is required.

The boost pump bypass and check valve allows fuel to flow in the event the boost pump were to clog and is shown in the Rotax installation manual.

As far as $1000 for hardware that includes many miscellaneous AN hardware, adel clamps, aluminum, brackets, sealants, etc. This estimate is probably a little low even.

I will post photos of my engine cowling in a few more days. It is 8 inches narrower at the nose than the stock AeroVee cowling. It has a NACA inlet on the bottom for the radiator, and a small inlet just below the prop spinner for the oil cooler. The cowling is tapered perfectly to the 9 inch prop spinner. The cowling has polished aluminum sides. On the bottom behind the radiator their is a shallow tunnel to assist with the cooling air outflow.


Jake

[Skippydiesel]

All good responses Jake,

I had not thought of a nose wheel Sonex. I can see how there might be a problem with the muffler/silencer.

I havent seen the Sonex recommendations for a prop extension - will look into it. I will point out that a prop extension is usually considered when there are other factors that can not be adjusted so as to not require one. Sometimes the other factor is styling rather than function.

I was really responding to what I perceived as your suggestion that owning a Rotax is particularly expensive (compared with the alternatives) My experience (10 years and 600 hrs) would be the opposite.

I look forward to seeing your engine layout and in particular your cowling design - I am just about to start building a custom cowling for my Sonex/Rotax 912 ULS, so am very interested in all other Sonex/Rotax installation's.

[Skippydiesel]

Good News on the Oil Hose Front!

I asked the Rotax Owners Forum about the use of Gates GTH-8 (8 for 12mm/.5") on my Rotax 912 ULS - got the green light.

So for all you fiscally careful Rotax owners out there, you now have a cheaper option, than just blindly purchasing from your regional Rotax dealership.