Dynon avionics

Discussion for builders, pilots, owners, and those interested in building or owning a Onex.

Dynon avionics

Postby surfly » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:12 pm

Has anyone installed and used Dynon avionics in their ONEX. I am seriously considering their product in spite of the high anxiety issue caused by cost consideration. The Dynon 7" EFIS seems too small visually speaking and I have no problem modifying my panel to fit the 10". I started off to build a simple punch a hole in a cloud vfr toy but now after serious thought about my mission it seems that more knowledge on my panel might be the way to go even though the price equals my airframe kit and my AEROVEE kit also. Please reply with suggestions, info, photo's or whatever comes to your mind. Also I do have an IFR certification dating back to pre GPS although do not to intend to do any IFR flying.
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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby N814W » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:38 pm

My "tentative" plan is to go EAB vs. E-LSA with an MGL Discovery Lite with the option to add a Val Nav 2KR later on after flight testing for a nav source to be an IFR legal "source of navigation" just to be able to go cloud busting on those popcorn cloud days (nothing stupid in the soup...), but the flights where I get a block clearance and just to bouncing from cloud to cloud to cloud are hands down my favorite flights. :)

For the price delta, I can't find what Dynon offers over MGL.
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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby kmacht » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:41 pm

If not IFR, what is your mission that makes you think you need the dynon? There are many sonex still flying vfr just fine with the old monochrome mgl stratomaster (including mine). I took it from Connecticut to Oshkosh and back using nothing but the stratomaster and the free avare app running on my phone. After the first few hours of getting comfortable with the plane you will be spending more time looking outside than staring at an expensive panel.

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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby MichaelFarley56 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:19 pm

I really hate to be "that guy" but I do want to mention that, as a long time CFII, it's only fair I mention a few things.

First, any time you fly in conditions less than VFR (for example, Class E below 10,000' MSL: 3 miles visibility, 1000' above/500' below/2000' horizontal distance) you must file an IFR flight plan and receive an appropriate clearance. So, anytime people talk about "punching holes" or "cloud busting" without flying IFR, they're breaking the regulations. Please don't do that. Please. I've seen too many people have close calls doing that.

Second, you'll hear this from others (not just me), but if you want to be legal and fly IFR in a Sonex/Onex, you're choosing the wrong airframe. These airplanes are sport planes with light control forces and minimal stability which make them a blast to fly, but not suitable for any sort of IFR flying. If you wanted to try it, you're going to need appropriate equipment and an autopilot which is going to make for a very heavy airframe. If that's what you want then go for it!

Having said all that, if you're not too mad at me and willing to continue reading, I can tell you that in my own experience, I've seen and flown behind the following EFIS systems:

1. MGL Stratomaster Ultra XL: Black and white screen that is very customizable and is easy to read, but its such an old EFIS you can only find used ones at this point. I flew behind this EFIS for 5 years and never had any issues with it.

2. MGL Xtreme Mini EFIS: This is what I currently have in my Waiex and I LOVE it! The color display is very easy to read, very bright, and it doesn't take much panel space. Inexpensive, and all of the MGL EFIS stuff is great with the engine RDAC on the firewall and a simple cable going to the EFIS (much easier to wire up). One note of caution: even if you add the MGL AHRS for a true artificial horizon, the MGL manual says it's for VFR use only and not suitable for IFR operations. You can however also use the Xtreme to run autopilot servos and it can be a control head for some transponders.

3. Garmin G5: If you want a super clean and easy to read display, the Garmin G5 can't be beat. Crystal clear display and the Garmin stuff in general looks great. I just spent some time flying behind the Garmin G3X Touch system and I'm blown away by the capabilities the system has!

4. GRT Mini X: Others can give better information than I can on this as I've never flown behind one, but I hear nothing but good things. The synthetic vision looks great!

5. Dynon D100: A few people on here have installed the D100 in the Sonex panel and while tight, it will fit. I'm not sure about a Onex panel. The D100 lacks the newest synthetic vision but it has a bright, clear display and has a lot of capabilities. The D10A is smaller but that may be good for a Onex.

Just my two cents of course!
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Dynon avionics

Postby jp352 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:13 pm

MichaelFarley56 wrote:I really hate to be "that guy" but I do want to mention that, as a long time CFII, it's only fair I mention a few things.

First, any time you fly in conditions less than VFR (for example, Class E below 10,000' MSL: 3 miles visibility, 1000' above/500' below/2000' horizontal distance) you must file an IFR flight plan and receive an appropriate clearance. So, anytime people talk about "punching holes" or "cloud busting" without flying IFR, they're breaking the regulations. Please don't do that. Please. I've seen too many people have close calls doing that.

Second, you'll hear this from others (not just me), but if you want to be legal and fly IFR in a Sonex/Onex, you're choosing the wrong airframe. These airplanes are sport planes with light control forces and minimal stability which make them a blast to fly, but not suitable for any sort of IFR flying. If you wanted to try it, you're going to need appropriate equipment and an autopilot which is going to make for a very heavy airframe. If that's what you want then go for it!

Having said all that, if you're not too mad at me and willing to continue reading, I can tell you that in my own experience, I've seen and flown behind the following EFIS systems:

1. MGL Stratomaster Ultra XL: Black and white screen that is very customizable and is easy to read, but its such an old EFIS you can only find used ones at this point. I flew behind this EFIS for 5 years and never had any issues with it.

2. MGL Xtreme Mini EFIS: This is what I currently have in my Waiex and I LOVE it! The color display is very easy to read, very bright, and it doesn't take much panel space. Inexpensive, and all of the MGL EFIS stuff is great with the engine RDAC on the firewall and a simple cable going to the EFIS (much easier to wire up). One note of caution: even if you add the MGL AHRS for a true artificial horizon, the MGL manual says it's for VFR use only and not suitable for IFR operations. You can however also use the Xtreme to run autopilot servos and it can be a control head for some transponders.

3. Garmin G5: If you want a super clean and easy to read display, the Garmin G5 can't be beat. Crystal clear display and the Garmin stuff in general looks great. I just spent some time flying behind the Garmin G3X Touch system and I'm blown away by the capabilities the system has!

4. GRT Mini X: Others can give better information than I can on this as I've never flown behind one, but I hear nothing but good things. The synthetic vision looks great!

5. Dynon D100: A few people on here have installed the D100 in the Sonex panel and while tight, it will fit. I'm not sure about a Onex panel. The D100 lacks the newest synthetic vision but it has a bright, clear display and has a lot of capabilities. The D10A is smaller but that may be good for a Onex.

Just my two cents of course!

Agreed. Please do not fly in <VMC unless trained and certified. That said, it is nice to have the tools to get yourself out of a spot if you went inadvertently into IMC.
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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby kmacht » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:48 pm

Go back and check the posts. Surfly the original poster said they weren't interested in IFR. The second poster N814W said they wanted to be IFR certified to get block clearance on those days with popcord clouds. Nobody here suggested they wanted to go flying illegally in IMC.

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Dynon avionics

Postby jp352 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:10 pm

kmacht wrote:Go back and check the posts. Surfly the original poster said they weren't interested in IFR. The second poster N814W said they wanted to be IFR certified to get block clearance on those days with popcord clouds. Nobody here suggested they wanted to go flying illegally in IMC.

Keith
#554

The OP mentioned punching a hole in a cloud while VFR. Maybe that was misconstrued.

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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby MichaelFarley56 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:51 pm

kmacht wrote:Go back and check the posts. Surfly the original poster said they weren't interested in IFR. The second poster N814W said they wanted to be IFR certified to get block clearance on those days with popcord clouds. Nobody here suggested they wanted to go flying illegally in IMC.

Keith
#554


Keith,

I agree with you on 'N814W' when he posted he's looking for something to pop through occasional clouds. For the record, I agree with him in that having an artificial horizon for those situations is never a bad idea and is certainly an added safety net. If he or anyone else wants to equip their airplane to meet the requirements of FAR 91.205 so they can file and fly under IFR, good for them!

However, the first post was "I started off to build a simple punch a hole in a cloud vfr toy" I'm not sure how that can be misunderstood. Even if someone isn't interested in flying under IFR rules or equipping your airplane for IFR, if you're flying through clouds while VFR that's violating FAR 91.155.

I'm not trying to start a fight or insult anyone here. Please tell me if I'm reading this wrong.
Mike Farley
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MGL Panel
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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby kmacht » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:00 pm

I was just going by his last statement that he is IFR certified but does not plan on flying IFR. I took the first statement to be a typo and instead mean punch a hole in the sky not to literally fly through a cloud. In either case, lets not turn this discussion into a VFR into IMC discussion and get back to the original question about dynon panels. If I'm not mistaken there was a sonex builder on here that works for dynon and can maybe talk to his point of view.

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Re: Dynon avionics

Postby N814W » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 pm

Yeah, my point is that any of the notables' EFIS systems paired with an ADAHRS & magnetometer will meet the "GRAB CARD" requirements, but one still needs a source of navigation. Val's option is an economical solution and the remote mount unit can be integrated in the tail cone or under the seat pan and not cramp the Onex's panel. Plus the extended wing tips ought to work with the Archer antennas...if everything else along the way lines up, I.e. positive, confident aircraft control without autopilot, and spare money to light on fire for "cool toys", because this obviously isn't a serious IFR platform. Nevertheless, you have to plan with the end in mind to even have the opportunity.

All that said, I still fail to see what the extra money for Dynon in buys over MGL or GRT.
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