Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Discussion for builders, pilots, owners, and those interested in building or owning a Xenos.

Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby Ironflight » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:56 pm

here's a question to see if anyone has already plowed this ground.....

Because of our taxiway configurations at home, it would be really very, very nice to have a full-swiveling tail wheel on the Xenos. That's really easy to do - in fact, I already have one on hand. The problem is that to really make it useful, I need to have differential braking capability. I already ordered the optional hydraulic brakes, and have those - but of course, they are designed to hook a single brake lever.

Has anyone already designed and implemented a dual-braking system for a Xenos or Sonex? Heel brakes are fine in my book - I learned to fly with them. If I can copy what has already worked, it will save me some trial and error!

Paul
Paul Dye
"Ironflight"
Building a Xenos!
Ironflight
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby MichaelFarley56 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:52 pm

Paul,

When I first started flying my Waiex I used the mechanical cable brakes with the machined AeroConversions brake drums. They worked fine but when the new hydraulic brake setup became available I ended up fabricating my own design using the AeroConversions brake kit but adding Hegar master cylinders on my own self designed brake pedals (attached to the stock Sonex rudder bars), a Matco parking brake (which I've never used), all connected to the Sonex brakes. It does the job but in my opinion the setup doesn't have nearly enough stopping power to be used with a full swiveling tail wheel. For my purpose of additional directional control during crosswind situations it's sufficient, but barely. Not that I'd want to do this, but it will not hold the airplane during really high power ground runs.

As my airplane was already finished I had to remove the welded rudder assembly from the fuselage by crawling under the panel which was by far the worst part of the job. If you haven't finished your forward fuselage yet it would be much simpler.

I'll try to get some pictures to you ASAP of my setup. There are others that have done the same so hopefully you'll get a lot of good ideas on this thread.
Mike Farley
Waiex #0056 - N569KM
Jabiru 3300A #1706
MGL Panel
MichaelFarley56
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:38 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby DCASonex » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:14 am

I have differential toe brakes on my Sonex. They are used with GP brakes pre-Sonex hydraulic brakes, but should work with Sonex brakes. Full drawings are posted on the old Yahoo Sonex Builder's forum: files section: modifications to Sonex #1327, or send me your e-mail address if interested.

David A. Sonex TD, CAMit 3300.
DCASonex
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:04 pm
Location: Western NY USA

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby 13brv3 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:23 am

I follow threads like this with interest, since I plan to install toe brakes in my Onex. I ordered the hyd brake option, and I'll convert to a full swivel tailwheel. I wish Sonex offered toe brakes as an option. I'd bet it would be really popular.

Cheers,
Rusty
Rusty
Onex- Rotax 912 (130 hours and counting)
Fixed wing, gyroplane, A&P
13brv3
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Tellico Plains, TN

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby fastj22 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:47 am

https://www.flyboyaccessories.com has a real slick swiveling tailwheel for the Sonex.
I have one. Its locked and direct steer like the stock one until you reach full rudder deflection, then it free swivels 360 degrees. I have differential brakes and can pirouette on one main wheel at the run up area. It also allows you to move the plane around the hangar very easily.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
User avatar
fastj22
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: Mile High

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby fastj22 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:55 am

For those who want toe brakes, I've fabricated a pretty nice system that slides into the tubes on the stock rudder pedals and work with Hagar master cylinders.
Given enough incentive, I could fabricate a batch of these.
Attachments
IMG_0336.jpg
IMG_0336.jpg (93.4 KiB) Viewed 10308 times

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
User avatar
fastj22
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: Mile High

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby Fastcapy » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:10 am

-Removed-
Last edited by Fastcapy on Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Beck
Oshkosh, WI (KOSH)
Sonex #1145 N920MB
Std Gear, Modified Aerovee, Rotec TBI, Dual Stick, Acro Ailerons
MGL Panel
Airworthiness: 10/24/13, First Flight: 05/18/14
Fastcapy
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:45 am
Location: KOSH

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby fastj22 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:41 am

Fastcapy wrote:John those are a really neat design. How are they mounted in the pedals? I understand they slip inside the tube but how are they secured in there and how are you mounting the master cylinders? I see the tab on these but are you just bolting the other end to the vertical rudder pedal tube?

Depending on cost it is something I would be interested in.

Yes, the smaller tube slides into the rudder peddle tube. The brake pedal is behind the frame. I made a bracket from AL channel that is mounted to the rudder frame at the top of the cylinder. So the cylinder is bolted to the top mount and the tang on the brake pedal. Its held in just by the cylinder. It doesn't slide out. You could make the inner tube long enough to go through the outer pedal and bolt a cap to the inner retaining it in the tube, but I've found that unnecessary. There are two sonex here using this setup with zero problems in well over 150 flight hours.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
User avatar
fastj22
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: Mile High

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby Sonex1517 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:57 pm

John

I gotta see a photo - you lost me there.
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Aero Estates (T25)
First flight 10/10/2015
325+ hours
Jabiru 3300 Gen 4
Prince P Tip
Taildragger
N1517S
User avatar
Sonex1517
 
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Differential Hydraulic Brakes?

Postby fastj22 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:22 pm

I'll try to snap one this weekend.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
User avatar
fastj22
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: Mile High

Next

Return to Xenos

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: iweshuff and 2 guests