Simple Digital Systems

Simple Digital Systems

Postby Mike53 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:03 pm

I ran across this company in an article in my latest Recreational Flyer Magazine and noticed it has been used on both the Jabiru 3300 and a VW turbo. http://sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
Mike
I know but one freedom, and that is the freedom of the mind.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Reserved C-FONX for the 80th Onex,Hummel 85HP ,Tri gear,GRT Mini X EFIS,and EMS,iFly 740 GPS
User avatar
Mike53
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:00 pm
Location: Dutton,Ontario , Canada

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby radfordc » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:51 pm

This info was posted by Les Smoot to the Aerovee list sometime ago.

> Group,
> I have two 2180's running EFI. One is on my Sonari,
> it's an early Aerovee, single ignition with a 10 amp
> alternator. The second is VP-1 with a Great Plains 2180
> ....same exact engine as the Aerovee ...a VW is a VW!
>
> Everyone should go to the CB Performance webpage and
> download their catalog. You will see a lot of familiar
> engine parts there.
>
> www.cbperformance.com
>
> My new 2180 Aerovee will go in my Sonex ....it too has
> the EFI.
>
> The EFI is a direct port injection type, an injector
> in each intake port ...and a small 34mm throttle
> body where the carb would mount. I use intake manifolds
> sold by CB Performance that already have the ports
> for the Bosch type injectors built in and a provision
> to support the fuel rail. It is a speed density system,
> it injects fuel based on load (manifold pressure) and
> rpm .....can be used with or without an O2 sensor.
> On my new Aerovee I drilled the Aerovee intake manifolds for
> the fuel injectors, ended up with a very clean setup.
>
> CB Performance makes an EFI system, which I used on
> an early Aero VW engine, ran great but the electronics
> package was NOT of aircraft quality, an even worse
> EFI system is the MegaSquirt system ...it's junk! If
> you are going to put an EFI system on an aircraft
> engine use the SDS system, it's the only one out there
> that has been designed with possible aircraft use.
>
> I have tried Haltech, Holley, MSD .......they are nice on
> cars, but not aircraft quality.
>
> The EFI system is made by a company in Canada called
> Simple Digital Systems (SDS for short). I was exposed
> to their product several years ago in the military,
> we used this system on the Predator UAV (unmanned aerial
> vehicle). It is a stand alone fuel injection system
> that is aerospace quality, uses a small hand programmer
> to edit the fuel map. The system is so flexible you
> could put EFI on a weedeater if you so desired! I spent
> alot of time with this sytem, and currently have several
> automobiles, a speedboat and several airplanes with
> this system ......the ECM is very small and mounted in
> a billet aluminum housing, the whole system will add
> 4 pounds to the engine/aircraft, and that's because I run
> dual electric fuel pumps in parallel for redundancy. The combo
> (injectors, pumps and ECM) pulls just over 4 amps total a
> 3400 rpms.
>
> The VW runs very very well ....and will leave a carburated
> VW in the dust! All of my aircraft have made several yearly
> trips to Sun-n-Fun ...1300 miles round trip...never had
> any engine or EFI related failures! I expect the same reliablity
> out of my Sonex.
>
> My new EFI 2180 Aerovee powered SONEX will fly soon,
> the engine is already running on the test stand
> with 10 hours of break in time on it so far. It's
> the same Aerovee kit, but with someone elses (GP's)
> purpose built crankshaft and prop hub .....as I won't
> fly shrink-fit hubs anymore......we beat that dead
> horse to death last month. The crankshaft and hub is
> the only thing I didn't like about my Aerovee ...so I
> fixed that.
>
> The EFI ECM has a limp home
> mode, uses only 3 sensors, a throttle postion sensor,
> MAP sensor and CHT senor, the engine will keep running
> if one of these fails .....I already mentioned the
> dual EFI fuel pumps, if one fails the other keeps running
> ....but that has never happened either! These small
> automotive electric fuel pumps will run forever if you
> keep the fuel clean, and the ECM is extremely reliable,
> the engineer who designed it has only had 2 fail out of
> several thousand in 8 years, and out of the 2 that failed
> one of those was connected in reverse polarity and burned
> up, installation error, that leaves one failure ......and
> it lost one injector driver and the engine kept running on
> the other 3 cylinders.
>
> I have learned over the years that 7.5 to 1 CR works
> very well on VW's with EFI, I can burn auto gas or Avgas,
> and I prefer Avgas ....but in a pinch auto gas will get
> you home.
>
> The slightly lower compression is easier on the engine
> especially exhaust valves. The EFI tends to compensate
> for the slightly lower power compared to the 8.0 to 1
> CR engine. EGT's run in the low 1200's consistently,
> they almost never change ...a tribute to the EFI. Like anything
> else, if you don't place the probes correctly you can
> have readings vastly different ......It should be noted
> here that with all things being equal EFI does not really
> make any more HP, but compared to a carb the precise mixture
> allows the engine to more efficient, thus perform better. If
> you are totally satified with your carb engine then you should
> avoid EFI, but this is the single best improvement I have
> seen yet on the aero VW, it will make you think you have a
> new engine under the cowl....the engine will run totally
> differently.
>
> I am no expert but I am no novice either, I have close to
> 700 hours flying behind EFI VW engines alone, it's proven
> so far to be overall more reliable than a carburated engine.
>
> I did not say it was any safer ......I said for me it
> has proven to be more reliable .....because there is less
> maintenance to the engine as a whole. Once installed you
> don't ever have to mess with the EFI again. Plugs don't fowl,
> oil stays cleaner .....less cockpit controls. A lot of
> other maintenance goes away with EFI ......if you have ever
> had an engine that always needs something tweaked, a leak
> fixed, you will know what I mean.
>
> In 20 years of flying VW airplanes I have had some carb issues ...
> but to date I have never had an EFI issue .....but that does
> not mean I won't! Anything can fail.
>
> My EFI VW starts with one revolution of the prop, has better fuel
> economy, no carb heat or mixture control, the engine never
> overheats, the oil stays cleaner, the plugs look like new
> even when I change them at 100 hour intervals. When I
> pulled the heads and cylinders at 500 hours I was amazed
> at how little wear there was, on other engines with carbs
> they were carboned up and always at least needed a valve job
> and cylinders ......I simply ground the valves because it was
> already apart and I re-ringed the same pistons and put it back
> together ......I will pull it down again at 1000 hours. Again,
> I was surprised because 92mm cylinders have a thinner wall
> thickness and normally wear rather quickly. These looked
> great, and I have seen what happens to lots of 92mm cylinders
> over the years ......I would bore the case for 94mm cylinders
> but that can cause problems with the case ......if you want
> reliability stay with the 90mm's or 92mm's .....94mm cylinders
> get too close to the case savers for my taste .....Aerovee knew
> this too when they did not go with the larger displacement engine
> which uses 94mm cylinders.
>
> The cylinder to cylinder fuel charge is exactly the same,
> (unlike carb engines) .....during a recent top end on the
> Sonari for example, at 500 hours the cylinders had
> almost no wear ....why... Because with a carb engine when
> you run rich, you wash down the cylinders ....all of that
> extra fuel washes the lube oil from the cylinders, the bore
> wears, the pistons wear, the rings wear .....the
> fuel will also delute the oil and make it thin and
> dirty ........EFI will make your engine last longer due to
> cleaner and more complete combustion and this produces less
> wear.....it burns cleaner because the
> mixture is precise, an injector for each cylinder
> makes that happen, there is no fuel to settle out of
> the mixture in that long intake manifold ...there is
> nothing in the intake manifold but air .....an intake air
> leak does not cause a lean mixture, it just causes the
> engine to idle slighty faster ....that's one way you
> know you have an airleak .....what ever air the engine
> pulls the ECM just adds the correct amount of fuel to keep
> the mixture right.
>
> The throttle response is amazing ......Other than
> for emissions reasons why do you think auto engines now
> routinely use EFI and go 200,000 to 250,000 miles before
> overhaul, this is largely due to EFI ......and the
> precisely metered fuel.
>
> Everything that makes EFI great in a car applies to
> airplanes too! Yes, it's slightly more complicated, yes
> the fuel system has a few more components .....but there
> are things that make this system just as reliable as
> a gravity fed carb ......mostly proven out by the millions
> of automobiles using EFI.
>
> There are pros and cons .......and someone could argue
> how the simple gravity fuel system and a carb are hard
> to beat ....maybe, but I wanted something modern and
> I wanted fuel injection, there are too many advantages
> not to use it. My engine will make more power,
> run better, get better fuel economy, with less internal
> wear, starts instantly, a near perfect mixture all the time,
> the list goes on and on. It's a great system, it's not a
> right or wrong thing, it's just different .......I work
> on these systems every day ...and I understand them, yes
> there is some added complexity ....but less maintenance and
> everything is automatic, just hit the starter button and
> not worry about mixture ....or carb heat. If there was a
> con to me it's cost, this system is not cheap, you get
> what you pay fopr with these systems ............I know I
> own a few EFI systems. It will cost about $1100 to add EFI,
> and do it the right way with high quality hoses and fittings,
> don't skimp here ......or it will burn you!
>
> Other things;
>
> If the alternator fails the engine will run for about
> 15 minutes giving you time to land .....I get an alarm
> the instant the alternator drops offline...and with a small
> 18 amphour backup battery you can extend that to 30 minutes,
> but in 5 years I have never had that happen, but I have a
> simple system in place to warn me and keep me flying until I
> can land. I can flip a single switch and divert all power
> to the fuel pumps and ECM .......I ground test this often
> and replace the battery when run times drop below 30
> minutes with the alternator turned off. A blocking diode
> allows charging of the backup battery all the time, but only
> the EFI can draw from it, a very simple backup solution.
>
> The ECM sets the fuel mixture based on load (manifold pressure)
> and rpm ......when the outside temperature changes it
> adjusts the mixture. There is an option for an O2 sensor
> but that really just improves cruise fuel economy a bit,
> it auto leans the engine during cruise, if you move the
> throttle the O2 sensor drops offline until cruise flight
> is re-established.
>
> I don't use an O2 sensor except to check the air-fuel-
> ratio every 100 hours ....it's a maintenance thing! I go
> through the entire rpm band from idle to WOT and make sure
> the ECM is keeping the mixture correct. I use an AFR meter
> and mines uses an O2 sensor to sniff the mixture. I may
> replace the instrument panel EGT meter with an AFR meter
> in my Sonex ......no need to monitor EGT anymore! Oil
> temp and CHT are my primary concerns with VW based engines.
>
> EFI engines run and start just as
> well at 20 degrees as they do at 90 degrees and require
> no choke ....just like your automobile it runs smooth
> as silk .....as a side note, I can also run my engine
> on ethanol / methanol with a quick change of the fuel
> map program within the ecm ...takes less than 5 minutes!
> The engine runs 80 to 100 degrees cooler and makes more power,
> but burns 42% more fuel to do it as the BTU value of
> alcohol is less than gasoline .......but it is fun, not
> something I plan to do often, but it's a neat alternative
> fuel and yes I know all about the moisture issue with
> alcohol fuels! I drain my tank and flush the fuel
> system with gasoline after using alcohol fuels .....!
>
> One of my EFI VW engines on the test stand was run at the NC
> State Fair this year as a demo using denatured ethanol for the
> agriculture comission. It was run about 10 hours over a
> 10 day period of time. NC is going to be a big ethanol and
> E-85 state ......I had several hundred guys try to buy it off
> me ......but we showed them how to build there own ....On alcohol
> the VW will turn a prop with 3 more inches of pitch at the
> same rpm .......
>
> There are many airplanes flying EFI ....not just VW's. My
> hangermate has this EFI system on his RV6 with an IO-320 ......
> been flying it for over 400 hours ......
>
> Not trying to convert anyone to EFI here, just sharing! Thought
> some of you may find it interesting. If EFI is NOT something you
> are interested in, then ignore this post ......I do my own thing
> and I have the skill set to pull it off, and as an A&P I know how
> to do this safely! It's not for everyone ......
>
> The SDS webpage is here for the looking. Look in the
> airplane section, one of my smaller planes with a miltary
> GPU engine(4A084)is in there .....it's just a baby VW at
> 45 hp. The system is the SDS EM-4 system, will support
> just about any 4 cylinder engine.
>
> www.sdsefi.com
>
> If you are still curious contact me offline, don't want to
> tie up this site with EFI stuff.
>
> Sorry for the long post.
>
>
> Les
> NC Sonex#1094
>
>
>
>
> --- In aerovee@yahoogroups.com, "halschwab" <schwabs@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Les,
> > Please fill us in. We want to know more.
> > Hal
> > NC Sonex #808
> >
> > -- In aerovee@yahoogroups.com, "Les" <soloflyer62@> wrote:
> > >
> > > EFI, Not a new idea ..........
> > >
> > > There are several Aerovee's running EFI on
> > > this forum already.......I own 2 of them.
> > >
> > > I saw someone mention controversy with regards to EFI,
> > > why would there ever be controversy about anything on
> > > here ......
> > >
> > > It's called Experimental Aviation for a reason.
> > >
> > > Les
> > > NC Sonex#1094
radfordc
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:39 am

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby Mike53 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:00 am

I had already posted this post to my web page and have read it at least 5 times.What impressed me the most was the lack of wear at the 500 hour tear down but then when you think about todays car engines with EFI it makes sense. Probably a good investment.
Mike
I know but one freedom, and that is the freedom of the mind.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Reserved C-FONX for the 80th Onex,Hummel 85HP ,Tri gear,GRT Mini X EFIS,and EMS,iFly 740 GPS
User avatar
Mike53
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:00 pm
Location: Dutton,Ontario , Canada

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby structurespilot » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:04 pm

Thanks for the great article! After reading this I went on the SDS website to check it out. To my surprise they are right here at our Airport (CYBW). To top it off I know someone who has this system in their car, and can't say enough good about it.

I may just have to do some thinking. This MAY just go well with the Corvair engine I'm thinking to put in my Waiex.

Regards, Norm..
Waiex Tail kit built! Working on Corvair engine core.

Norm (structurespilot)
structurespilot
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 2:18 am
Location: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby vernd » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:56 pm

Just wondering if there are any recent updates or experiences with this system used on an aerovee.
Thanks....Vern
Sonex 613
Vern Dueck - Innisfail, Alberta
Sonex 613 Slow Scratchbuild
Taildragger , Aerovee(turbo),
vernd
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:04 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby GordonTurner » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:42 pm

Happened to be in Calgary this weekend so I made arrangements to get out to SDS’s facility, visit Ross, and ask a lot of questions. I was extremely impressed both with the quality, and simplicity, of his systems and also by the depth of his knowledge of many different engines and the particular s of their operation and applicability of his EFI and EI systems.

I am a ways away from flying, get a little closer every day I’m home. I will be carefully considering the obstacles and advantages of EFI for my Corvair engine installation. If I HAD AN aerovee I suspect I would already have his systems on order.

If anybody is interested I would be happy to answer initial questions where I can, and also to direct you straight to the source. For the cost these systems look to me like they solve a lot of fuel problems and offer better performance to boot.

Build on. Gordon
Waiex 158 New York. N88YX registered.
3.0 Liter Corvair built, run, and installed.
Garmin panel, Shorai LiFePo batteries.
GordonTurner
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:14 am
Location: NY, NY

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby karmarepair » Sun May 28, 2023 9:58 pm

This is an old, old thread, but if someone is thinking of putting fuel injection on their engine, I have a set of Aerovee intake manifolds modified to take injectors you can have for the postage to mail them to you. I'm in the process of installing a CPI on my engine, BTW. Details when I get done.
karmarepair
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:13 pm

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby BRS » Mon May 29, 2023 1:27 pm

Detail when you get done! :-(
Sounds like a real interesting project. Since I've used SDS in my past 3 aircraft but decided it was not the best fit for this R2300. Can you share what system you'll be using?
-Brock
Sonex-A (s/n 1013)
R2300, P-tip 54/50
Center Stick
V16, TT22
User avatar
BRS
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:50 pm

Re: Simple Digital Systems

Postby karmarepair » Tue May 30, 2023 12:13 am

I could NOT get the primary ignition to work, and neither could the team from my EAA chapter when this was a Chapter project. I think the original builder damaged the flywheel magnets. We changed plugs, changed magnetrons (NOT easy on a mounted engine), nothing worked. I knew this was an issue when I bought the project from my EAA chapter, but I thought, I'll give it one more try. No joy. So, as I had planned before purchase, I'm installing a SDS CPI-1 http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi.htm. I'm still working on it, but you can follow it here http://eaabuilderslog.org/?s=wlawrence for the whole project, and here for just the ignition http://eaabuilderslog.org/?blproject&sh ... xebwn&sid=
karmarepair
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:13 pm


Return to Technical Write-Ups and FAQs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests