When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby sonex892. » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:20 am

NWade wrote:So all you guys who waited until your DAR inspection: You rigged the wings with all of the F10 & F09 parts (all the bits aft of the spar tunnel) just cleco'ed in place? You can't rivet in the tunnel until you rig the wings, and those F10 & F09 parts all connect to either the spar tunnel or the lower rear horizontal cross-member. They can't really be riveted into a stable configuration without the bottom skin in, right? As strong as a well-cleco'ed bunch of parts seem, I think things can still wiggle into a different alignment when you put weight or torque on a series of cleco'ed parts...

Thanks,

--Noel

Noel

You are correct the aft spar tunnel cant be riveted before the wings are rigged.

From memory, it was 7 years ago. I prepped all the lower section parts to deburred stage,including the floor panel before rigging the wings. I rigged the wings with only the forward sparbox and firewall riveted. The engine mount and wheels were installed. I didn't have the glareshield installed.

After that I riveted the aft sparbox, contols, seat brackets etc leaving the void forward of the spar box open.

To confirm things were all still lining up, I clecoed the floor in place a few times along the way. It never moved at any point. I would definitely recommend having the floor clecoed in place when squaring things and riveting the firewall and forward spar tunnel. Obviously the floor defines a lot.
NWade wrote: Did you essentially stop fuselage work at F09 and work on the canopy, fuel, electrical, and engine pages; then return to finish off the lower fwd fuse afterwards?

Thanks,
--Noel

No. I rigged the wings first then did all that other stuff later.

If you are still worried? Just rivet it now.

Steve
Sonex 892
235hrs
2016 RAA Aus best kitbuilt and amateur built aircraft.

Here is a pic of the floor going on just hours before the inspection
Image
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Bryan Cotton » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:58 am

Noel,
I'm having flashbacks. I had the exact same concerns. Nothing beats that floor to hold alignment. There are a few things that help though:
1) the tank cover and panel - mine were clecoed in during the process.
2) the splice plates. The top ones are bolted in already. You could bolt the lower ones in if desired but I didn't.
3) the forward fuse structure has some stiffness even without the floor. It is riveted to the tailcone. Consider your loads are low and how hard is it to deform the fuselage if you try right now?
4) as Steve says you can sneak the floor on to convince yourself all is well.

My rigging came out great, and the floor still clecoes on easily.
Bryan Cotton
Poplar Grove, IL C77
Waiex 191 N191YX
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby mike.smith » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:05 pm

NWade wrote:So all you guys who waited until your DAR inspection: You rigged the wings with all of the F10 & F09 parts (all the bits aft of the spar tunnel) just cleco'ed in place? You can't rivet in the tunnel until you rig the wings, and those F10 & F09 parts all connect to either the spar tunnel or the lower rear horizontal cross-member. They can't really be riveted into a stable configuration without the bottom skin in, right? As strong as a well-cleco'ed bunch of parts seem, I think things can still wiggle into a different alignment when you put weight or torque on a series of cleco'ed parts... Did you essentially stop fuselage work at F09 and work on the canopy, fuel, electrical, and engine pages; then return to finish off the lower fwd fuse afterwards?

Thanks,

--Noel


Noel:
Here's one of the in between pages of my rigging process. You can look before and after this page to see more.
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_l ... 948&row=16

Think about what clecos are for: to hold everything in alignment. They work just as well as rivets. I never found that to be an issue.
Mike Smith
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby jowens » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:28 pm

Consider at least test fitting your rudder pedals before riveting the floor and firewall. My install required numerous tweaks to the phenolic blocks to allow free movement. The pedals moved freely outside the airplane but the rounding to allow for the rudder pedal welds is hard to predict. I didn't want to remove any more phenolic material than necessary. I also hope to complete the hydraulic toe brakes and lines with everything open. My plan is to rivet both floors just prior to DAR inspection.
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Concorde » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:04 pm

Did you guys install the fuel tank and riveted the glare shield before rigging the wings ?
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Bryan Cotton » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:41 pm

I did not. My fuel tank is still out and glareshield is clecoed in.
Bryan Cotton
Poplar Grove, IL C77
Waiex 191 N191YX
Taildragger, Aerovee, acro ailerons
dual sticks with sport trainer controls
Prebuilt spars and machined angle kit
Year 2 flying and approaching 200 hours December 23
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Concorde » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:55 pm

Thanks Bryan. So did you rig the wings with both floor and the glare shield clecoed in place or you took one of them off for easy access.
Ben
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Rynoth » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:23 pm

I rigged mine without glareshield or floor installed.

http://www.rynoth.com/wordpress/waiex/2 ... g-rigging/
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Bryan Cotton » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:15 pm

I had my glareshield and instrument panel clecoed in, but the floor out. Having the floor out is the important part of access to the places you need to drill.
https://youtu.be/6wGUBuIGPXI
Bryan Cotton
Poplar Grove, IL C77
Waiex 191 N191YX
Taildragger, Aerovee, acro ailerons
dual sticks with sport trainer controls
Prebuilt spars and machined angle kit
Year 2 flying and approaching 200 hours December 23
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Re: When to rivet lower fwd fuselage skin?

Postby Concorde » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:23 pm

I thought that we had to have the floor on for stability while rigging the wings . I wonder what Sonex recommends.
Thanks.
Ben
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Rotax 912uls
N379BS reserved.
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