Sonex Accidents

Discussion topics to include safety related issues and flight training.

Sonex Accidents

Postby johnr9q@yahoo.com » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:32 pm

Sonex Accidents.pdf
(1.21 MiB) Downloaded 483 times


I was searching for information on Sonex accidents and wasn't satisfied with the information supplied on the Sonex Pilots and Builders Foundation site so I spent the day, yesterday, compiling the attached list of all the accidents I could find involving Sonex and included all the data that I was interested in. I hope people on this site can add information I have not found, especially information on what the cause of an engine failure is. Also more information on what type of engine was in the aircraft that had an engine failure. Most of the time the information I obtained will state something like "aircraft lost power". It would be nice to know why it lost power, did the crank break, etc. Where I state the "issue" whether it is Pilot error or Mech issue this was my determination based on the limited information I had. If any of you see this as incorrect please advise me so I can make changes. I don't want to place blame where not appropriate. Also, I made a suggestion in the suggestion section on this forum, requesting that an accidents section be added. Thanks, John R
johnr9q@yahoo.com
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:34 pm

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby radfordc » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:49 pm

Here is the info on N229P crash in 2007:

NTSB Identification: DFW07CA068
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Accident occurred Saturday, February 10, 2007 in Atlanta, TX
Probable Cause Approval Date: 05/29/2007
Aircraft: Fortuna Sonex, registration: N229P
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.

NTSB investigators used data provided by various entities, including, but not limited to, the Federal Aviation Administration and/or the operator and did not travel in support of this investigation to prepare this aircraft accident report.

The airplane stalled and collided with trees while maneuvering to avoid trees during a go-around. The pilot reported that while practicing takeoff and landings on runway 33, he determined that he was too high on the approach and initiated a go-around. The pilot concluded that his 80-horsepower homebuilt airplane was not going to be able to clear the trees at the departure end of the 2,463-foot long, by 150-foot wide turf runway, so he turned the airplane 45-degrees to the left to avoid the trees. The pilot added that while maneuvering, the airplane stalled and collided with trees located about 100 yards west of the runway 33. The airplane came to rest in the inverted position at the base of the trees, resulting in structural damage to the wings and the fuselage. The canopy was also damaged. There was no fire. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector who responded to the accident site noted that runway 15/33 is not annotated on the airport diagram thus there was no information about the obstructions present at either end of the runway.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

The pilot's failure to maintain an adequate airspeed that resulted in a stall/mush. A contributing factor was the group of trees located near the departure end of the runway.
radfordc
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:39 am

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby rizzz » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:35 pm

johnr9q@yahoo.com wrote:...
It would be nice to know why it lost power, did the crank break, etc.
...


I believe you'll find that if the exact cause for the "loss of power" has been determined without doubt, the investigation will clearly state that cause.
They generally don't include speculations or suspicions in the investigations. Only facts that can be traced back to actual findings.
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
http://www.mykitlog.com/rizzz/
rizzz
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 am
Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby fastj22 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:38 pm

rizzz wrote:
johnr9q@yahoo.com wrote:...
It would be nice to know why it lost power, did the crank break, etc.
...


I believe you'll find that if the exact cause for the "loss of power" has been determined without doubt, the investigation will clearly state that cause.
They generally don't include speculations or suspicions in the investigations. Only facts that can be traced back to actual findings.

True, if its a simple determination, it will be reported. However, if the aircraft is destroyed and the root cause requires a great deal of detective work, I don't think you will see it. I believe Jeff Schultz's off airport landing was never determined why his Jab quit. They (FAA) came out, checked his fuel level, turned the prop, then determined engine failure to unknown reasons. To this day, Jeff doesn't know why his engine quit. They just aren't very interested in investigating uncertified engine installations. Had this been a C150 with O200, they would have had the engine torn down.

Another thing to consider, since we do our own installs with few established standards we are held to, there are far too many variables to consider.

John Gillis
SEL Private, Comm Glider, Tow pilot (Pawnee Driver)
Waiex N116YX, Jabiru 3300, Tail dragger,
First flight, 3/16/2013. 403 hours and climbing.
Home: CO15. KOSH x 5
Flying a B-Model Conversion (Super Bee Baby!)
User avatar
fastj22
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm
Location: Mile High

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby johnr9q@yahoo.com » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:54 am

Surely some of you people can add information to my list or make corrections. If you come up with something I will make changes to the list and repost. It seems like it shouldn't be too difficult to find out what engine was in the various airplanes?
johnr9q@yahoo.com
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:34 pm

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby radfordc » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:22 pm

You could try cross referencing your list with the Sonex completions site: http://builder.sonexaircraft.com/cgi-bi ... ompletions
radfordc
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:39 am

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby radfordc » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:23 pm

Also, I think there have been 1 or 2 Sonex fatal accidents overseas. Seem to recall something about one in Italy?
radfordc
 
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:39 am

Sonex Accidents

Postby Sonex1517 » Tue May 19, 2015 7:57 pm

I wanted to post in this topic about something I find very interesting.

In recent months I have been contacted directly by two Sonex pilots with opposite strong opinions.

One insists we are not doing enough to actively post accident data and as a result are not upholding the mission of the foundation. He voiced a very strong opinion in the subject.

Another separate contact was from someone who literally demanded we remove all of the accident data due to how the community is seen from the outside when we post accident data. His demand (and it was a demand) was also very strong.

So as a point of conversation, what does the community think?

I know what I think.

I know what the Sonex Builders and Pilots Foundation has stated its mission is.

What do all of you think?


Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
Tails and Wings complete - finishing fuselage.
N1517S reserved
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Aero Estates (T25)
First flight 10/10/2015
325+ hours
Jabiru 3300 Gen 4
Prince P Tip
Taildragger
N1517S
User avatar
Sonex1517
 
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby Bryan Cotton » Tue May 19, 2015 8:12 pm

Here is my opinion-I think we are good where we are. We have certainly had some accident discussion. In fact, a google search led me to Sonexbuilders when I was looking for accident data. This uncovered the thread on the Waiex that lost its tail. I appreciate frank and thoughtful discussions on accidents. I have lost friends in airplane accidents and I try to learn everything about what went wrong. Hopefully our loss of our fellow pilots can spare us from the same end. But, there is more to the Sonex community than just accidents. There is building, flying, events and fellowship. As far as removing all discussion of accidents, I respectfully disagree with that approach.
Bryan Cotton
Poplar Grove, IL C77
Waiex 191 N191YX
Taildragger, Aerovee, acro ailerons
dual sticks with sport trainer controls
Prebuilt spars and machined angle kit
Year 2 flying and approaching 200 hours December 23
User avatar
Bryan Cotton
 
Posts: 4957
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:54 pm
Location: C77

Re: Sonex Accidents

Postby rizzz » Tue May 19, 2015 8:28 pm

I strongly believe we should be able to discuss everything.
In fact, I would go even further than that and say we should also be able to speculate on possible causes etc. This is something that is often "frowned upon" to say the least.
BUT, much like you stated in the other topic, Robbie:
...those that read the post should be reminded that the post is just that. A post on the Internet in a discussion forum.
.
I strongly believe "people" have to be able to gather as much information and as many different opinions as possible so they can make up their own mind, but off course this assumes “people” have a brain of their own and are willing to use it, not everyone does :).
You need to be able to read a topic within its context and realise that there is a person/company behind this post with feelings, emotions and motives influencing what they’re posting.
Last edited by rizzz on Wed May 20, 2015 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
http://www.mykitlog.com/rizzz/
rizzz
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:07 am
Location: Wollongong, NSW, Australia

Next

Return to Safety and Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest