Tailwheel to tricycle

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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby woodmw » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:47 am

Ken...

I believe the best thing you could do is get another 5+ hours of tailwheel training. I don't think 3-4 hrs is enough. It wasn't for me. The additional time will teach you more about the behavior of conventional gear aircraft, increase your skills using your feet to control where the airplane goes rather than where it wants to go, and provide a tremendous boost to your confidence. And that may be the most important benefit of additional dual time. Good luck and enjoy.

Mike
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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby pfhoeycfi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:50 am

...and if you want some additional reading on the subject...

The Compleat Taildragger Pilot by Harvey S. Plourde.

Its avail on Amazon.

peter
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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby Sonerai13 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:59 am

pfhoeycfi wrote:The Compleat Taildragger Pilot by Harvey S. Plourde.


That is the BEST book ever on tailwheel flying. Highly recommended. There are details and info in that book that have never shown up anywhere else. Get it!!
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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby Gordon » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:33 am

Tailwheel Training.........?

Ken.......just a short comment. As I recall you said you had a "nose over" situation and now had some repairs to do. Having taken my flight training (back in the 60's) and flown taildraggers 95 percent of the time since.....are you keeping the stick all the way back on the ramp or when taxing? That is an absolute requirement. I have flew (as a passenger) on occasion with "nose wheel pilots" and am taken back by the fact they pay no attention to the stick position. Guess they want to keep pressure on the nose wheel for steering the airplane........ and I "get that". However.......switching to a taildragger that becomes a real bad habit they need to break or a "nose over" may (will) be in their future...........Just saying.

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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby SNX1508 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:07 am

Gordon wrote:Tailwheel Training.........?


.....are you keeping the stick all the way back on the ramp or when taxing? That is an absolute requirement.

Gordon.....Onex....Hummel 2400


FYi,

I completed tail dragger training last year, and I was taught that if there is a tail wind while taxiing, the stick goes all of the way forward, and all the way left/forward or right/forward for a quartering tail wind. Then the stick goes all the way back if boosting the throttle, momentary stick back if the throttle is only increased momentarily while taxiing.

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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby Bryan Cotton » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:07 am

Terry,
I started my tailwheel training in 1990 in a PA12. That was the first airplane I learned to fly in. Several hundred tailwheel hours later, not sure I've completed all the training, but I agree with your point. I've seen a more experienced pilot have his tail lifted while taxiing back for another tow, because he was too slow to get the stick forward where it belonged for a tailwind. Ideally this is something they teach nosewheel pilots too.
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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby Gordon » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:39 pm

Tailwheel Dilemma.....?

If that's working for you then stick with it. The way I am doing it has worked for me since 1964.......maybe I am just lucky...(?). Much of my time has been in taildragger RV's since 1989.

Maybe we need to hear from Ken on what he did to end up with a "nose over" and a damaged airplane.

Gordon....Onex.......Hummel 2400
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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby daleandee » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:21 pm

SNX1508 wrote:I completed tail dragger training last year, and I was taught that if there is a tail wind while taxiing, the stick goes all of the way forward, and all the way left/forward or right/forward for a quartering tail wind. Then the stick goes all the way back if boosting the throttle, momentary stick back if the throttle is only increased momentarily while taxiing.


I have less than 200 hours of tail wheel experience (most in my Cleanex) but I keep the stick locked in the rear position when the airplane is in motion on the ground. Forward (center) stick may be needed with strong tail winds but I submit that won't be very often and not until you have considerable skills in calm air and then begin to challenge the wind. Here's some info to consider:

As a general rule the stick (or wheel) is held in its full aft position at all times when taxiing. The only possible exception to this rule is if there is a strong tail wind. When the wind from behind is strong enough to cause the tail to rise, position the elevator in a neutral position (stick amidship). This will cause the elevator to be at the same angle as the stabilizer and cause the wind to help hold down the tail. The stick should never be held forward of the neutral position when taxiing, it should be all the way back or neutral, never forward of neutral. Rule number 1: Always keep the stick back.


From this site: http://advancedtailwheeltraining.com/tailwheel_basics

Here is some of my reasoning. The airplane is rated for crosswinds up to 17 MPH. I try to avoid flying in high winds. My taxi speed is usually somewhere around 12-15 MPH. Add to that the thrust of the propeller and then consider that it would take a pretty good tail wind to overcome both of those combined. Are there times that I will need to use forward (centered) stick? Sure ... but it's very seldom as I'm a fair weather flyer. Still, I've had a few of those days when I made windy landings that tested and even upped my skill level. For me, my stick needs to be back & stay back at all times while on the ground. I would recommend that you practice the same until you are comfortable enough to fly in direct crosswinds at or above what the airplane is rated for.

Just one curmudgeon's opinion ...

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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby Sonerai13 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:35 am

SNX1508 wrote:
Gordon wrote:I completed tail dragger training last year, and I was taught that if there is a tail wind while taxiing, the stick goes all of the way forward, and all the way left/forward or right/forward for a quartering tail wind. Then the stick goes all the way back if boosting the throttle, momentary stick back if the throttle is only increased momentarily while taxiing.


With all due respect to whoever your tailwheel instructor was, that's not really correct. That procedure completely discounts the fact that there is about 15 knots of wind over the tail AT IDLE due to propeller blast. AT IDLE! Any increase in power to move the airplane increases this blast over the tail. So you need to be in enough wind to overcome the propeller blast before you go stick forward while taxiing with a tailwind. This seldom happens, but it can. And you can feel it. When you're taxiing and you can feel the wind pushing on the elevator (through feedback to the stick) you then go stick forward. MOST of the time you will be stick-back while taxiing a tailwheel airplane, even in a tailwind (until that wind gets strong enough to over come propeller blast).

Now, some airplanes have enough weight on the tail that you can get away with stick-forward taxiing in light tailwinds and not have a problem. But some aren't! Know your airplane!

Ailerons are not in the propeller blast, so the procedure you describe for ailerons is correct.
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Re: Tailwheel to tricycle

Postby Gordon » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:30 pm

Tailwheel Taxi Controversy............?

Dale....you said it right.....and Joe Norris brought the point "home" even better. Most of the time a tail wind while taxing is overcome by the prop blast over the elevators. If the tail wind is so severe to change that scenario then I likely would be staying on the ground anyway......sitting in the airport coffee shop "talking about flying"......rather than doing it. I am a "fair weather" flyer these days with nothing to prove any more.

Yes I know when you fly long cross country's you CAN get caught at times......... been there done that.

We still haven't heard from Ken have we........As to what lead up to his nose over in his Sonex? Maybe it was something completely different.......locked brake, flat tire, taxied into a hole or rut....there are a number of things that can cause a prop strike.

Gordon........Onex.....Hummel 2400
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